Ep #210: Weight Loss Success Story: Nicole Myers, DO

Nicole Myers is an absolute delight, and I just know that you’re going to love this episode and find so much inspiration in her story. Nicole is a DO who is passionate about osteopathic medicine and someone who just keeps showing up and trying until everything clicks into place.

In this episode, she’s sharing her story about being an overweight child, her struggles with body image, and the switch that happened and made her realize she had the power to fundamentally change her life. She’s also sharing some of the tools and tricks that really made a difference for her on her weight loss journey and led her to experience the mind and body transformation that has changed her life.

Listen To The Episode Here:

In Today’s Episode, You’ll Learn:

  • What it was like for Nicole growing up overweight.
  • How she changed her mindset to develop healthier habits.
  • Nicole’s process for completely transforming her life.
  • How learning to trust her body was a key shift that changed everything for her.
  • The areas of her life that have changed as a result of coaching.

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Read the Transcript Below:

Katrina Ubell:      You are listening to the Weight Loss for Busy Physicians podcast with Katrina Ubell, MD, episode number 210.

Welcome to Weight Loss for Busy Physicians, the podcast where busy doctors like you get the practical solutions and support you need to permanently lose the weight so you can feel better and have the life you want. If you’re looking to overcome your stress eating and exhaustion and move into freedom around food, you’re in the right place.

Well, hey there, my friend. Welcome to the podcast. I’m so glad you’re here today. I have to tell you that the response to the weight loss success stories series that we’ve been doing has been overwhelming. Everybody loves these episodes, and I love sharing my amazing clients and their amazing success that they’ve created for themselves with the assistance of my program, Weight Loss for Doctors Only, of course.

It’s so fun. I just absolutely love doing it. Now, because I still have a few more in my pocket for you, I had planned to go three weeks before giving you the next one. But January 26th is actually the four-year anniversary of this podcast, if you can believe it or not. I mean, I guess so with so many episodes. And so what I’ve typically done just kind of traditionally is on the year anniversary, I have provided an episode that is a lessons learned podcast, like lessons learned from the previous year.

And so I thought about doing that this week and moving it around. And then I was like, no, I don’t want to do that. I want that episode to go really, truly on the four-year anniversary. So I moved this success story episode up a week. So super fun. Then we’ll go a little bit longer before we have our next one in February. So I want to introduce you today to Nicole Myers.

She is an absolute delight. She’s seriously so fun. I just love her, love her, love her, love her. She is somebody who just keeps showing up. I love that about her. If she doesn’t get something, she’s just like, okay, give me like the next little nugget, like the next little permutation, the next little iteration. Help me open my brain up just a little bit more. And she just keeps going and keeps going and keeps going.

What she has created for herself and her life as a result of coaching in the Weight Loss for Doctors Only program is just incredible. It’s just so great. And she’s going to tell you all about it and her story about being an overweight child. She’s just an incredible human being. And she’s just a super delightful person. I just love her. She’s so great. And I can’t wait to share her with you.

I know you’re going to be so interested in her story. And also it’s just so fun to see what people work on and what they create. A huge thing she’s worked on has been dating. And that was something that she really put off for a long time. I mean, I haven’t been dating in a long time. This year will be our 20th wedding anniversary. So I can just really speak to it myself.

But I coach a lot of people who are dating or want to date or are avoiding dating or things like that, and it is a difficult situation to be in, especially if you do not know how to manage your mind. And when you do know how to manage your mind, it actually can be fun and enjoyable and it doesn’t have to be this awful experience. And so she’s somebody in particular who has really taken a deep dive into that work to create something that’s always been a dream for her in her life and to start looking for that companionship that she’s wanting.

So that’s just something extra besides her weight loss that has been really fun. And she’s just done so much work. She’s just so great. I love coaching her because every time she comes back, like, okay, now I’m working on this. Now I’m back with this. This isn’t making sense to me. I want some help with that. I think probably part of what I love about that is that’s very similar to the way I am. I’m like, this makes no sense to me, but here I am again, asking questions.

I’m back. You can’t get rid of me yet. So anyway, that’s probably one reason why she and just her personality resonates so much with me. But anyway, she’s just a lovely soul, has such a great loving, calming energy and such great presence. So I can’t wait to share Nicole Myers with you today. She also is a DO and she teaches some of the osteopathic manipulation work that I think is super fascinating. And I think that’s pretty cool too.

So all of you DO’s out there, here’s one of your people. So great. So please enjoy this episode with Nicole Myers. Next week I’ll be back with that lessons learned episode, four years, and there were a lot of lessons learned in the last year. That is for sure. I can’t wait to share them with you, and I will see you then. Please enjoy. Hey Nicole, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Nicole Myers:      Thank you. I’m so grateful.

Katrina Ubell:      I’m so excited to have you…

Nicole Myers:      I’m excited to talk more.

Katrina Ubell:      I know. I know. I know. You’re a repeat customer. I love it. Repeat, repeat podcast guest. It’s so fun.

Nicole Myers:      It’s crazy how this all works out.

Katrina Ubell:      Right? I know. It’s so good. So would you start us off by just introducing yourself, telling us a little bit about yourself, what you do and all of that?

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. So I’m Nicole Myers. I’m a DO. I’m currently a course director for a osteopathic manipulative medicine course at a osteopathic school. And so I love doing that, teaching the students and just getting them excited about medicine and specifically osteopathic manipulative medicine and that part of our training and what we do because that’s where my passion lies.

I grew up on east coast, in Philly. I guess that’s what we can talk about. Born and raised in Philadelphia, went out to the other side of the state, Pittsburgh, for college. And then I went back to Philly for med school. And then yeah, that led me to Florida, which I love for residency and family med. And then did an extra year doing neuromuscular medicine or osteopathic manipulative medicine. Yeah. I worked in Texas for a little bit and then came back to Florida because I love it so much.

Katrina Ubell:      You love it so much. That’s awesome. That’s so cool. I think the manipulative medicine part of being a DO is so cool. And I know a lot of people become DO’s and then don’t really do any of that stuff. I mean, would you say majority?

Nicole Myers:      So true. The majority don’t. And so it’s both like hard with teaching students and because they don’t see it kind of long-term being performed, but we just try our best. I’m really grateful to have like the colleagues around me who actually do use it and practice. And I think even just the psychomotor skills that the students learn, how to use their hands.

Oftentimes I hear and get feedback from attendings about our students that they’re just way better about patients. So even if they do general surgery or ortho or like another specialty where they’re using their hand a lot, PMNR is a great one, but they’re just so much better at their hands. Yeah. And I think that matters, especially in some specialties, especially to have students with that background, even though they might not do manipulation, even though I really want them to just because I’m passionate about it.

Use your skills, guys. But these also how patient skills are like that skill. How to do an actual physical exam on patients and actually do an exam, actually touch a knee. If somebody has knee pain, they’ll just look at it and order and an imaging, like actually examine that part of the person’s body is what we also and I try to also emphasize with them. That the skills they’re learning, they could use wherever they go.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. So I grew up in the Detroit area for like second half of my growing up. And with Michigan State Medical School being there, they were so… So Michigan state has an MD school and a DO school. And so there are tons and tons of Dos. I think most, if not all, of my various doctors that I saw growing up were DO’s. And I remember even in medical school, I saw a family medicine doctor who was a DO and I was having some like lower back or hip issue or whatever. And he totally did some manipulative stuff on me and it totally worked. It was amazing. I was like, this is so cool.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. You just got to think about it and try it. And our students are so funny because we tell them like, don’t do it on your family, but they always do it on their family. They always come back over Thanksgiving break or Christmas and be like, “Doctor Myers, I tried that thing you told me and it worked.” And I was just like, mm-hmm (affirmative), that’s why we actually—we’re trying to teach you the truth here. Yeah. You just got to think about how to use it.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. That’s super cool.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. I love it.

Katrina Ubell:      So let’s talk about weight struggles. I know you dealt with childhood obesity.

Nicole Myers:      Absolutely.

Katrina Ubell:      And so I would love for you to talk about like when that all started and let’s do the timeline here. When did weight become an issue for you?

Nicole Myers:      I think it really became an issue early on in school, probably like kindergarten, like six years old. I just remember being in my class and just noticing the sizes of the kids and how different I looked. I developed very, very early. I was tall for my age and also obese. Yeah. I was just not being able to fit in the kindergarten chairs quite right.

You’re sitting on the floor and not in the little chair that you’re supposed to be sitting into or you can’t quite fit under the desk and things like that. So I definitely noticed there in terms of like the other kids that were around me. And then at home, my mom also…

Katrina Ubell:      Is the rest of your family struggling with obesity as well?

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. Multiple family members, really. And then my mom also struggling with her weight or figuring out weight loss for herself as well. And so I remember just doing the, what is it? VHS state exercises.

Katrina Ubell:      It’s hard to remember what those were called.

Nicole Myers:      I know, right? I love me some Jane Fonda workout from the ’80s. It’s hard. It’s like everything. Richard Simmons. Oh my gosh.

Katrina Ubell:      Oh, yes, of course, right?

Nicole Myers:      Dancing to the oldies. I still listen some of those soul music songs and still that routine is in my head, the flashes of that VHS tape. So it’s funny now, but like at the time, that was what we just did right after school, on the weekends. My body has always felt different from everyone else’s. And I’d just be like, why is my body so different? Or I hate my body. And just a lot of like my body is not right. Something is wrong with my body.

Katrina Ubell:      Was it just pretty much internalized or did other people, like did kids mention it or your doctor that you went to? How was that?

Nicole Myers:      Yeah, I think my doctor has mentioned it. I’ve recalled them also saying like, “You’re just tall,” but it was beyond that. And so it was external too with bullying, a lot of bullying growing up. I love to run around and be athletic, but I just couldn’t because I couldn’t breeze. And I couldn’t go fast. But I just wanted to be out there and boys would always bully me whenever I’d run.

Or I remember distinctly, like in gym class, they would run into me so they could run into my chest because my breasts were so big and I was so big. I know, right? I just remember that, where they would bump into me and then walk away and like laugh and do that stuff. And the boys would just do that over and over again.

And then it was also internalized as well, I think from partly external and just seeing the media as well during that time, late ’80s and ’90s and stuff. And just being like, I don’t look like that at all, besides maybe the Richard Simmons tapes and seeing those bodies there because he had all types of bodies. But outside of that, the music videos and other shows and 902 Window.

All those things that you see just told me that my body wasn’t right. And plus it just seems like a disconnect of where my body was versus my mind in a way of who I was. Yeah. So I used food quite a bit as like a friend for all those feelings of being bullied. Yeah. So I used these food quite a bit as a friend. And I would say growing up too in school, I kind of realized I got good feedback from people because of my academic work and my brain.

I started to figure out my intellect is what got me the positive feedback. And so that was also something that I just kind of deviated my mind to or like all of my focus there and was just like my body is awful. So I’m just going to…

Katrina Ubell:      Just ignore that and focus on…

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. Focus on my brain and getting my knowledge and my academics and keeping that up. And so that’s what I tried to do, is kind of compartmentalize it in a way. I don’t know if that was the right… Obviously at the time I couldn’t have said that, but I think that’s what I was deciding to do. But then at the same time, I remember you would get that reward from the teachers about how good you’re doing.

But then I also know the other rewards of it in terms of food, like actual food, was like we’d read books and you’d get a Pizza Hut. I’m sure you didn’t have to use it, but if you read a book, you got a free personal pan pizza from Pizza Hut. And so that was like my motivation. I would read a book and I’m like, “I’m a learner. I love to learn.” And so then I’d get a pizza with it and I was just like, “This is the greatest ever. But how many pizzas can I get in a week? What’s the maximum here? How many books do I need to read to get how many pizzas?” And so I just remember that too was connected to that.

Katrina Ubell:      What’s the earliest age you remember actively trying to lose weight?

Nicole Myers:      Probably middle school ish, kind of transitioning from elementary school to middle school, I think. I remember in middle school, I think they did like a scoliosis check, but they also took our weight, I believe, as well. And I was like over 200 pounds, I believe. I remember the nurse being like, “Oh, you’re just tall again.” But I remember her face and her energy being like that’s not good.

The other girls would talk about their weight and I realized that I was far and above those. And so I think at that time that’s when it started realizing like, oh yeah, actually I weigh this much and that’s not what’s it’s supposed to be. And then I think in the background of all the exercising and stuff too was always just like the purpose of this is to also help you lose weight. And so I think it really started then. Yeah. Especially over exercising and using that as the primary rate loss tool.

Katrina Ubell:      Did that work for you?

Nicole Myers:      No. Not really. I kind of justified it later on in my journey, but no, not really. Still, food was such a friend and it was just like a part of… Yeah, it was super comfortable.

Katrina Ubell:      Was it kind of part of your family culture too?

Nicole Myers:      It is. It was. Yeah. Very much so you could ask my relatives, it’s like, we were the cookie house. We always had a cookie jar or cakes or things. I loved to bake and cook for my family. I would make Parker House rolls. I would like love Bobby Flay. I loved the food chain and all that stuff. And I would find a recipe and make it like guys, I’m making stuffed chicken with all these things or making nun. This seems fun.

And so I loved to make cookies and all that kind of stuff. I was part of that too. And again, getting good feedback from folks when I cook and I bake and people liked it. And so that was definitely a part of it too. And sort of this cultural aspect. And it’s very much like, if you’re sad, you eat. If you’re happy, you eat too. It’s celebratory. And so it’s also connected to a lot of happy things and stuff like that too.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. So what happened in high school? Was high school more of the same or did you end up… Because I know you lost some significant amount of weight at one point. When was that?

Nicole Myers:      That was more so after I completed college. But high school, again, I really focused on my brain. I went to a all-girls public high school that was really about high standards for females. And you work hard, you work together. Super awesome place to go to school. But again, I just like detached from the body that I hated.

And I was just like I must focus on academics and really build up my brain because that seemed to get me where I wanted to go versus dealing with the body that I have not so much. And I think another part of it too, I actually didn’t even recall this until like last week as I was thinking about this. Another part of me, like loathing my body so much.

Because I was like, why did I actually loathe my body? Part of it was just developing quite early and going through puberty and I would be like, what is happening with this body of mine?  But I think the other thing too was I have hydradenitis, a skin disorder. And to have those sores underneath my groin, just dealing with all of that, that was also a lot.

I ended up having surgery for it as a freshman in high school, which helped a ton. But I was always scared to interact or I’m willing to hide away from people because I literally would be bandaged up underneath my clothes, literally masking tape wrapped around my arm blades because they would just drain and not to be gross, but they smelled. And I just thought like I smell. If I’m moving, it’s just going to drain a bunch. It was just a lot of…

Katrina Ubell:      Oh, geez. Yes. No wonder you hated your body.

Nicole Myers:      I know, right? I had that revelation last week and I was like, that’s why I hated my body so much. And so I was like, that makes so much sense now. And when I would go, I think like you were talking about before, like the external things too, and the physicians would tell me, “This is because you are fat. This is because you are obese.” You were back because you were obese and this is why you have this disease sort of thing.

Katrina Ubell:      It’s like it’s your fault that you have this.

Nicole Myers:      Exactly. And so I felt that also. And so that played into trying to over exercise, but I really didn’t change much of my diet from what I recall or much my diet would change. My mom would go on Weight Watchers or Jenny Craig and then we would sort of try those things and on and off throughout the years. But that was it. But then in college food was such a comfort. Just being away from home, it was such a comfort.

And again, over exercising two hours at the gym next to the division one athletes. And I would be running on the treadmill with them. And then I walked down the hill, get a pint of ice cream and a cheese stick or a pizza and a pint of ice cream and just think that somehow that was going to work out. And of course that did not work out.

Katrina Ubell:      Wishful thinking, right? Where you were just like, “No, but I just exercised.”

Nicole Myers:      Exactly. And then once I graduated from college, I took a year off in between that and the med school. I remember getting on the scale and I was 245.

Katrina Ubell:      How tall were you?

Nicole Myers:      5’8″. So I was 245. And I was like, well, whoa. At that point, my brain was like, this is not acceptable. And so I changed, but still have a mentality about it. The low fat, whole grains reduction and the amount of food that I ate, counting calories, overexercising still. Yeah. Cheat day.

Katrina Ubell:      Yes. I could put some serious food away on cheat day back when I did that. I think cheat day, I must’ve misunderstood the concept because I would be like sick. I was so full. And I was in such scarcity around food that I was just like this is my chance. I have to have all the things, whether I want them, I’m hungry or not. None of that factors into it. It’s just it’s time to eat those. Yeah.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. Exactly. So I ended up losing 60 pounds that year in between. And then over the course of med school, I lost 30 more. So by the time I started.

Katrina Ubell:      That’s amazing, right? Like going to med school and losing 30 pounds. Wow. It’s really incredible.

Nicole Myers:      So that same sort of diet pretty much, counting calories up on the app every day and over exercising. I think, yeah, cheat day. And then became multiple cheat days eventually, of course, of course.

Katrina Ubell:      So you lost that weight, right?

Nicole Myers:      So I did.

Katrina Ubell:      How long did you maintain that then?

Nicole Myers:      I gained probably 30 to 40 pounds through residency.

Katrina Ubell:      Oh, okay. You kept enough for a while.

Nicole Myers:      I kept off a fair amount. I remember graduating from medical school and being at like the lowest weight I’ve ever been mid 150s and being still deep, deep loathing of my body.

Katrina Ubell:      So let’s just talk about this. So you lost almost a hundred pounds in total.

Nicole Myers:      That’s like 24 to 8. Like super expected.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. And it was so disappointing, right?

Nicole Myers:      So disappointing.

Katrina Ubell:      It was just like, this is all wrong.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. It really was. I have pictures back then of me like getting used to the area in Florida for residency and then that woman in that picture, oh, she so hated herself, unfortunately. But she just said, no, she doesn’t know. She didn’t know. So residency with the stress and the call and all that stuff in and out of the little fat calorie counting and overexercising just kind of in and out of it, depending on the month, where I could exercise more in other months.

But also I kind of realized then that exercise too is very much a mood stabilizer for me and it’s super important to how I live. Because it was like, once I started doing that, again, because I would like stop for a month and then I start doing it. I was like, oh, it feels so much better to work out and stuff like that, but still kind of using it more as like a weight loss. This will lead to weight loss when I do this versus just like enjoying Zumba for Zumba.

Katrina Ubell:      Just adding the vibe and feeling good in your body and enjoying that you can do that.

Nicole Myers:      And around everybody else in the class and stuff. And so yeah. So by the time I graduated residency, I had gained about 30 or 40 more.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. So then?

Nicole Myers:      Attending. Yeah. Hit attending life. Moved to Texas to be closer to my family. Soon realized that the work situation that I was in or at least for me seeing 50 patients a day was not the pace for me that works. Yeah. It’s just not the pace. I thought changing my pace from what I was doing before would be refreshing, but it was not refreshing. All of my patients still and stuff and the colleagues that I worked with, just that piece of things was not for me.

But it was completely necessary for me to be in Texas at the time because my dad was very sick and he eventually passed away. And so that season of my life just needed to happen exactly how it happened because it just needed to and that’s how it ended up being. But then I was diagnosed I think in the end of residency with endometriosis. And so they put me on hormonal medication and my weight significantly jumped with that.

Both my doctor and I was like that can’t because I was already pretty high on the list and she knew that that was like a main thing for me is to lose weight and do that. So that was stopped, but I didn’t really lose that weight at all that I gained from that. Yeah. And still diet mentality stuff, calorie counting, reducing the amount of food.

So I kind of went into that and early attending life. And then 2018 came, I had moved back to Florida by then for where I’m working right now. And I remembered it like the back of my hand, August 4th, 2018, sitting on the couch. I remember one of your podcasts about the stages of change, I think. I think I got to the truth. I just knew that the way I was living my life, I was not happy at all and I was not fulfilled in any way possible. That I was the common denominator. I know I needed to be in Texas where I was at the time for that season of my life.

But then I moved and it felt like hardly anything had changed and I’m still on this weight loss thing. I’ve been on it for like this movie that just keeps playing over and over again in my life. And I just like was on the couch sitting and I was like, I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. And I am the common denominator here. So I obviously have to be the one to change. So yeah. And so that really, that August 4th, 2018, was like that switch went off in my brain, like it is you. It’s just like, you’re the common denminator.

Katrina Ubell:      It sounds like it was more like it had been in there knowing versus beating yourself up.

Nicole Myers:      No, it wasn’t. It really wasn’t. It was just like, Nick, this is where we are. There’s got to be a change. You’re the one that make it. You got to make it. So then my opening game, a friend on Facebook, she joined this nutritionalist program and fitness program. And so she reached out to me, a high school friend, and then I was just like, oh, this sounds different.

It was different than anything I had heard of before. It seemed reasonable and it seemed like it was something that I could sustain. Because obviously what I was doing before in the calorie counting and beating myself up and trying to willpower my way through it wasn’t working at all. But it seemed like it was something very sustainable. And so I joined that nutritionalist program.

Katrina Ubell:      And so that was more focused on just what you ate, like food and stuff?

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. Mostly focused on what I ate. Also, some mindset shifts too. But for me I’ve really focused on… And I did have some mindset shifts in there too, because it involved getting on the scale every single day. It involved tracking my food every day. It involved tucking my sleep every day and water and gave different portions of how meals should be and stuff like that. But very kind of general.

But I found myself really getting to the point where I was like open about experimenting about things versus this very restricted mentality of like you can only have this or this. It’s just like, try this. And then I kind of tried that, tried this, and I got way better at like figuring out actually what foods fueled my body the best. And so that’s all really good to be like, oh yeah, I felt tired like a hundred percent of the time.

And then now that I’m like fueling my body in this different way, I feel like I have enough energy all day. And just noticing the change and the fuels that I was giving my body was really powerful to see and that also it’s not this restricted thing. I always felt like I was always trying to restrict myself when I had that diet mentality.

But with this, it had changed to let’s experiment. Let’s just see what your body likes and let’s see how your body responds. And then I would see my body respond in positive ways or in ways that didn’t serve me well and then I’ll be like, oh, okay. Do I want to do that again? Is that pizza worth it? And I started to kind of see the pattern sort of develop of that like fuel in my body well or not so well. Yeah.

So it was really helpful for like very much the food thing. Some mindset shifts and just developing the habit of getting on the scale every day. Tracking myself every day was very important for me to realize and do, because I did have like, why do I have to do this every single day of my life in the past? Whereas now it’s just like, this is checking in. This is just checking in with me and it’s not…

Katrina Ubell:      It’s a reconnection with yourself.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah, it is right. Like, am I following my plan for today? I think we’ve talked about too, my tomorrow self is going to be really excited about what I did today.

Katrina Ubell:      It’s just going to be so happy.

Nicole Myers:      Yes. It’s going to be so happy, like what she did. And so thinking more along that line was really helpful. And then also starting to really see how exercise really did affect my body and how that was not basically just doing that for the amount of time that I did and working with the nutritionist, I was able to see like, oh yeah, exercise has no role in my weight loss.

It is purely like a mood thing. It just helps me balance out my emotional life and just gets me up at like a nice, little balance point. But also I love sports. I love to be athletic and work out and stuff. And so I do like to challenge myself too. But I also was in the process of learning, what’s the line there and where is my line? And making sure I don’t cross that line or catching myself when I go into like, oh yeah, you should work a little extra today. Like nope. That’s not it. That’s not what we do.

Katrina Ubell:      You’ve had so much success in this program.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. I lost 75 pounds, I guess over a year, maybe. A little bit over a year. But again, I remember dealing with a lot of food chatter still, a lot of urge eating, over desire. Weekends going nuts like, oh my gosh, it’s a new day. It’s like a new today. It’s like, somehow this is different than Monday through Friday. One day I remember it just dawned on me like, what if I just ate exactly what I ate on Monday through Friday? And my brain was like, “What? You can do that?”

I did it. I was like, that was like the simplest thing. But I was really like the weekends are my time to go out there, go to the farmer’s market and have all the donuts, the fresh donuts. It was just like, I got myself in those like loops over desire, urge driven eating a lot more. And I think still at my core, it’s like, you can’t keep this off too.

Katrina Ubell:      You just had that belief, like this is temporary.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. In a way, I was just like, this is working. This is completely sustainable. But then there was also this very much belief like, you have not done this in the past. So therefore, you will not be able to do this in the future. And so that became clearer and clearer, because I had blown past so many goal weights by this point. I just wanted to get to my BMI. But then I was like, I guess I’ll get to where I graduated in med school. And then it just kept going.

And I was like, wait, where’s this going? I was just like, okay, I’m still within normal BMI range. Yeah. But then that belief started to really come to the surface. And when I really started to just sort of like flatten out, my weight started to really flatten out, I guess just above like my mid BMI range, just above it. So I was still doing a lot of weekend, like overeating or driven eating. And that underlying belief was still there. How are you going to maintain this? You have no idea how to maintain this.

Katrina Ubell:      So that was in 2018. So that’s really not that long ago.

Nicole Myers:      yeah. It’s not that long at all when I think about got it. And then yeah, started at like 75 pounds down. And then you came into my life clearly not that long ago really. It’s been a year now. But in October, 2019, I think I saw a Facebook ad. I’m not even sure at this point.

Katrina Ubell:      Somehow.

Nicole Myers:      Somehow you came into my world, which was just incredible. And I started listening to the podcast and I think it was through Facebook or maybe the women physicians group or something. And I think another friend is doing podcast too or something like that. Women physicians group on Facebook. And then I started listening to your podcast and I was just like, what in the world?

How does she know exactly what’s in my brain right now? I wish somebody taught me this before. It was just like so eye opening, mind blowing, but yet simple. But yet also like, oh my gosh, I’ve been living this way my whole life. And there is a whole kind of new awareness of my life. Because there still was like no processing at all of really emotions in a way at all.

I would say food was still like my main comfort source. And so just listening to your podcast, it’s like, how does this lady in like the mid US, Northern mid know exactly what’s going on in my brain right now? It was just like so unbelievable to me that everything that you were talking about was things that I was just like feeling on the inside, but I was just like could not express how to work through them or how to just approach it.

Joining the nutritionist program, I was kind of getting hints of these things or hints of them, but it was just like not coming together. It was just all because I wasn’t aware of what my thoughts were in the whole model. I wasn’t realizing how much I was just living in my old models and scarcity. So much scarcity mentality and victim mentality and emotional childhood and just the whole thing, resistance at old wazoo. Just like the whole thing.

Katrina Ubell:      You’re like, you list it, I’ve got it.

Nicole Myers:      Exactly. It was so much.

Katrina Ubell:      I could find that in me. Don’t worry.

Nicole Myers:      But when I listened to you and each podcast, there was like a light there. It was like, but there is a light. There is a way that you can work through all of this. And normalizing it in a way is just like, this is how kind of most of the world exists. But this is this way that is super open and requires curiosity. Yeah. I don’t know. I remember listening to you and I was like, this is the one. I just remember being like, this is it.

And I immediately told my family because they/re my biggest support system. And I was like, you got to listen to this. This is it. This is legit. This is where it is. And just living out the life that I always wanted and desired, but I just didn’t know how to bring that new version of me out and to figure out who that new version of me is who stays at a weight that’s the best for her body.

Katrina Ubell:      Like who doesn’t struggle. Who isn’t maintained out of fear, scarcity, like depriving yourself and beating herself up basically in order to stay there. I mean, you are creating an absolutely new version of yourself, especially when it’s not like you can look back and be like, well, in my twenties, when I didn’t struggle with my weight, XYZ, whatever. You’re literally crafting this new version of a human being. Like de novo. This is new.

Nicole Myers:      Exactly. Kind of the main thing I remember having on my mind after college, graduating and losing those 60 pounds and the starting during med school was you don’t want to be a hypocrite to your patients. Oh, I realized too, once I started listening, I was like, that’s why. That’s why I didn’t work for very long. A lot of willpower power and a lot of fear that was based off of that.

You don’t want to be a hypocrite to your patients that you’re going to have in the future. And so that was a lot of fear driven and actions that were taken a lot from fear. So much fear of being a hypocrite to people that I took care of. Whereas like in 2018, it was much more of an internal, like we need to look at our life again in a different way. But just listening to your podcasts and really starting to implement things.

I would say probably just even doing thought downloads, even though I had no clue what I was doing. But just listening to the podcast, doing thought downloads, asking myself the better questions. Like, how does this serve me? What am I making this mean? Yeah. Those two, especially. And I think I was doing like a couple of times a week maybe.

And then the hunger scale, because I was still so overeating and stuff like that, and a lot of it was driven eating. And then following the hunger scale, because I never really mentioned the hunger scale too much before. And so using the hunger scale and just really starting to trust my body that it knew what it was doing. Really, really trusted my body, becoming more aware of how I felt in my body. That was also like powerful to do. And I lost 15 more pounds. I got like to the very bottom of the normal BMI range.

Katrina Ubell:      Is that the healthy weight for you?

Nicole Myers:      Yes and no. It’s not really good being there because I did not overeat. I think at that time, I don’t know if I was, I was still exercising. I wasn’t over exercising, but I was still exercising regularly. At that point, another thought that came up, and I think I’ve talked about this in probably one of the first coaching calls that we had, was once I got to that weight, my brain was just like something is wrong with you if you’re this thin.

At the time I remember I had received messages when I was younger too that if you are that thin, something is wrong with you. You’re sick. You have some terminal… That you’re ill, you’re on drugs. You’re somehow like sickly. And so then I rate the model. If you should go through the models, I think that thought like, “I am not going to want to maintain that at all.”

Katrina Ubell:      Of course. You’ll end up sabotaging yourself and you’ll have to gain weight so you don’t think that about yourself.

Nicole Myers:      Exactly. And so when I realized that, I’m like, I’m so glad I have this work. I realized that and realized where that leads and the results that then eventually lead me to. And I was like, oh, okay. That thought is completely optional. It’s completely made up. It was just something I believed for a long time. And so that’s completely optional. And so I can change it.

And it was super powerful to both the, we call it the river of misery, like know what that model means and then trying to move to a different model, because I believed that for a long time. It was underneath there amongst all the stuff. And once the overeating went away and buffering with the food and all of it was done, that came up to the surface, which this work taught me to. And so once I became aware of that, I was like, oh, okay. I can change it now. And so yeah, that’s what I’ve been working on.

Katrina Ubell:      What I love about it is you had already had so much success with your weight loss and you probably didn’t even need to lose those 15 pounds. Probably everybody would have argued, “You look great. You don’t need to lose more weight.” There’s no problem here that needs fixing. But you knew inside this work isn’t done yet for me.

Nicole Myers:      No. Because I knew absolutely I wanted food freedom. I remember that being… I never have any mantras or anything like that ever in my life, but somehow at the end of 2019, it’s like, we’re done. Food freedom. This is happening now.

Katrina Ubell:      Yes. That’s like the next step of this process for you that I love. I mean, it’s not surprising because of the amazing results you’ve gotten. Not only just with losing those final pounds, but just with your whole life, transforming your relationships and so many things in your life. It was like, you just kept showing up and you kept asking for help and you kept asking for direction.

I always loved that about you because I’d be like, “Oh great. I’m coaching Cole.” I know that this is going to be like the next, like you’ve worked through whatever it is we last discussed and you’re like, “I’m ready for the next thing,” Or, “Now I’m butting up against this next obstacle. I don’t know how to get past it.” Watching your progression just as a coach has been so fun to see how much change you’ve really created.

I mean, I always think of it as like, I am obviously not doing it for you. We’re all here for you and supporting you. We love to be able to contribute. But you’re really the one who keeps showing up for it, who keeps being like, “Yep, let’s do the next thing. Let’s do the next thing.” Committing to this process, and your results of course are such a testament to that.

Nicole Myers:      And I remember you saying too just like the three P’s: the patience, the practice, and the persistence. That’s been it so much.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. You just keep going, right? It’s just like, you just keep going, and eventually you figure it out.

Nicole Myers:      You do. And when I started, I remember asking you, can I do this program? I don’t really have weight to lose, but I know my mind is a mess.

Katrina Ubell:      And I know of so many people. They’re like, listen, if I have to lose a couple pounds, okay, fine, I guess I will. But really what I need help on is my brain. It’s still totally worth it, because I think some people are like that’s a lot of money to just lose like a couple pounds. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no. That is not the way to be looking at what the value is here.

Nicole Myers:      You have the ability to change your life.

Katrina Ubell:      Do you want to kind of do just a quick kind of like tick off on some of the various areas of your life that have been touched?

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. I think I was onto the whole self-worth thing and self love thing early on, like to love myself unconditionally or my only job is to love myself. Just really being linked to that. I still read it in my phone pretty much every day. My only job is to love myself. And so really working on that self worth piece has been just everything. It’s just everything. Because it’s just like the crux of all of it.

Katrina Ubell:      Of everything. Right. Because when you think about it, so dating has been something that you’ve totally been working on ad getting out there. If you don’t love yourself, dating is essential.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. And it wasn’t even obviously something I desire, but I was just like, this is not even possible at all. Who would ever like me, love me? Because I didn’t even love myself. But realizing my own worth in and of itself just because I am, because I exist. Huge, huge. Yeah. Just like all of that. It was just super essential to like just allowing me to just grow and dream and just realizing so much is available to me when I come from that place of love and talk about actioning from love and not fear a lot.

And when I action from that place of love, like tremendous things can happen within me personally, but then outside of me too. It’s just like an extension of everything. That love that I have for myself now, it’s like, I can more freely give it to other people. And that has also been like super powerful to see that change and that new person, a new version of me that I am now and how I show up for my relationship with my sister and my mom, especially because they’re my closest people and just really coming at it like my only job is to just be there. And to drop any manual. Obviously I’m still working on stuff, but just to drop any manual that I have for them, or at least recognize that at first and foremost that I have a manual. And then how can I put that on myself?

Katrina Ubell:      And you mean by that is like expectations for somebody else that they have to act a certain way so that you can be happy and instead going, oh, I expected them to be this certain way. What if I expected myself to be the way that I expect them to be and how might that transform this relationship?

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. And so that’s just been so powerful to just live in that more contented space around it versus always like wanting somebody to do something or change. But to just accept people as they are, it just lifts so much extra stuff and just staying out of their business and staying in my own business. I got enough stuff and my own human brain to deal with. I don’t need to take on other people’s human brain. And it’s so funny to be so in love with people that it’s like, how can I love them even more now? It’s just incredible to realize that like, how is that even possible. But it is possible.

Katrina Ubell:      And loving yourself more and more and more. Because the more you’re able love and accept yourself, the more you’re able to offer that to other people as well.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. And so that’s been incredible to see. The dating thing and work has been lately a goal to kind of work in the dating. And I think even just writing for coaching and literally just getting the line like, yeah, so what if you’re disappointed at work? Yeah. What if you’re overwhelmed at work? And just being like, what if it is that? And I’d be like, oh, okay. I’m not supposed to be like rainbows and daisy if it’s about my job all the time.

Katrina Ubell:      Right. It’s like the normal human experience to have an array of emotions.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. And so just like sit back and realize, not expecting my job to be the end-all and be-all of who I am, even though I’m super passionate about it and I feel like this is the job I’ve been called to. But also like putting it in its bright place and not…

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. It’s like not your job’s job to make you happy. So it’s like, you’ve got to show up, get out of it. You’re in charge of what you get out of it, taking ownership for your experience, good or bad. And then getting onto the job of making yourself happy because that’s your job, not your job’s job.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. And so just to just realize that and just be like, oh, okay. I can do that. I could just show up.

Katrina Ubell:      You’re similar to me. I’m like, oh my gosh. That’s how the world is? Oh my gosh, I had no idea. Okay. Great.

Nicole Myers:      So it’s just like that one little revelation, like, oh yeah, it’s not all supposed to be like this one way.

Katrina Ubell:      So other work that you did was relating to your faith. If I recall, you grew up in the church. Your father is a minister.

Nicole Myers:      Yep. You got it.

Katrina Ubell:      So this has been a super important part of your life. And you feel like coaching has helped you feel faith more deeply, I guess is what I’m trying to say.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. I really believe what I believe. I don’t know if that sounds right.

Katrina Ubell:      Understand what you believe and why.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. And really see and take you through a model and see how that works out for me and see how that does serve me so very well. And so just to have this open, again, that openness and that curiosity about what I believe and not think judging myself for questioning my faith or anything like that. But just like, let’s just see. Just being open about it. It was really helpful to just be really open about and be like, okay, if I put this through a model, whatever it is, a first or whatever it is, if I put this through a model, this serves me, oh my gosh, oo well. And so it’s just helped me really reaffirm what I believed and it just increased my face so much.

And using, I think too, as a way for me to really connect with that love for myself and in how God sees me as like an example of a way of how I can extend love to myself. It just gave me like this template, you can call it, but like this way to see how I could extrapolate that to myself. And I had to work through too, just like, was I selfish? I’m being like self centered. Because I felt like some parts of faith…

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. And often that is the message. Now you’re making it about you.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah, and all that stuff. But I’ve found when I was open and curious about it and did my work and digging in further, it’s like, no, this is all connected. For me, it was like, this is all connected to that. And it just reaffirms it and it shows me over and over and over again how it serves me when I incorporate my faith and who I am and what connects me to my purpose for being here and what I’m doing. That’s all a part of that. Just displaying that love for myself and showing the world who I am.

Katrina Ubell:      I think so often we use, especially when you’re somebody who has essentially had so much loathing for your body and probably parts of yourself as well for so long. And then you’re like, okay. And I get this question so often, like I get it Katrina. I’m on board. I need to love myself. But like how? right. We often really, really have a hard time even understanding what that would be like.

And so in this case, I think it’s so powerful when you have a religious belief in a higher power that offers you unconditional love. If you believe in that, you can kind of think, okay, well, if that is unconditional love, could I offer that to myself as well? Using that, like you said, as a template, as an example to start creating that for yourself. I think that’s such a good use of religious beliefs. Because it’s so easy for us to… I mean, so many people use it against themselves.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s helped me, again, grow in so many ways in my faith and just like everything works together. Yeah. So it’s just how I look at it. Integrity too, like integrity for myself throughout this process and just showing up. Showing up for myself over and over and over again. Yes, I can look in the mirror now and I’m like, you showed up for yourself. Keep showing up for yourself.

And I think also using too in a way of helping me too go from that scarcity mindset to that abundance and making that transition too. Oftentimes, when I’m having different thoughts or my intentional thoughts, I try to like, if I come from scarcity a lot, I try to get to a grateful acceptance. Finances is another area that I worked on with you and being completely scarce about money.

And this like a grateful acceptance piece and then like trying to move into abundance. Just trying to, again, love myself throughout that whole journey too and not like beating myself up if I go back into scarcity and then I’m back into grateful acceptance. And then I get to abundance and then I go back. I’m still learning that lesson a lot too.

Katrina Ubell:      And I just think sometimes too, can it be okay if that is just the way this will be? And that maybe over the course of time, we spend more days in abundance than scarcity. And then even more time, like most of the time we’re in abundance and rarely we go into scarcity. Of course when certain things happen, those old thoughts or patterns will arise.

It’s what we do with them when they arise versus going, when will this be completely extinguished and I won’t ever have a thought like this anymore? I don’t know that that’s going to be the experience for most people. And when that’s your expectation, it’s easy to get disappointed. I’ve done all this work and my brain still does this. Well, same for like urges for food. I’m always like if push comes to shove, my brain will be like, I don’t know what the solution is, but how about a snack? It’s going to be like, I got nothing else.

Nicole Myers:      You’ve got nothing. Yeah. And I’m learning that lesson even now over and over again as I continue to just like grow. I have so many dreams now. I feel like I’m bursting out of the seems and my old self is just like, whoa, Nelly, we got to stop all this crazy stuff that’s happening here. Whereas my new self is like, no, man, everything is available to you. You go.

Katrina Ubell:      Stop pumping the brakes.

Nicole Myers:      Exactly. But then my discernment, my wisdom self is just like, okay, we still got to think through this thing. And so just like being okay and all of it I’m still very much learning. Yeah. Realizing those scarcity thoughts. I also see too just progress and like, oh, I’m becoming much more aware of it, like quicker when I get myself into the ruminating and spinning like, oh, why am I back in this place again? I’m like, oh, that’s right. Okay.

Katrina Ubell:      You have so much more insight into the progress. It’s not like you’re starting from scratch.

Nicole Myers:      Exactly. It’s not taking days and weeks. It’s taking like a day or it’s taking hours. And then like each little increment, I’m like, yes, we caught that one. Scrap that thought. That’s not who we are, or writing my thoughts on who I am and just realizing, like breaking down that kind of stuff for myself has been really helpful lately, as I’m doing so many new things and learning how to play the guitar and dating.

So many things that I’m doing. Of course, when I’m going to do something new, my scarcity thoughts come back. I’m realizing like, oh yeah, this is just what’s going to happen. Because I’ve been noticing how much I’ve been so much more in that abundance space and just soaking it up and loving it. And then once I’m starting to do something new, my scarcity thoughts come back. And that’s being comfortable with that happening and being like, this is…

Katrina Ubell:      And expecting it. It’s like, I’m doing something new, right on time. Here it is.

Nicole Myers:      When we have our coaching calls, we are always just like, “Yeah, nothing is going wrong here.” I’m like, oh, yeah, that’s right. Nothing is going wrong here, is it? Even when I was telling my family too, like food chatter, over desire, all of it, way, way, way down. But it’s not like it’s gone like complete. There’s like this minimal thing that is just there.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. Put the stop on top of the pod.

Nicole Myers:      Exactly. Just kind of lying there and I don’t have to do anything about it. It’s just lying there. I say if I come the fourth thing on my mind. I’m like, well, okay, what am I feeling? What am I thinking right now? That’s where it all stems from. And so I got to like take it back, take a step back. Oh, okay. I’m feeling a little rum right now. Okay. I’m feeling nervous right now. I’m anxious right now. I love disappointment and overwhelmed are my majors and shame and guilt. Oh, those are like my major things.

Katrina Ubell:      Your frequent emotional…

Nicole Myers:      Frequent flyers. Yep. Shame, guilt, disappointment, overwhelmed are my main ones. And so I recognize like, oh, okay. This is the shame feeling. This is the guilt feeling. And just being so aware of that, it’s just so freeing to be able to live life in that way and to just take your power back. Just own it. Just be able to own it. Own the experience that I’m having in my life. If today is not necessarily on the good side of the 50/50 day, just own it still.

Katrina Ubell:      And know that nothing has gone wrong.

Nicole Myers:      Yeah, nothing’s gone wrong. It’s going okay. The other day I woke up in the funk because I realized like, oh, I was believing I wasn’t enough again. And then once I did that, I was like, oh, okay. Now we can move on. It’s like, oh, that’s the model I was living off of for like the first like three hours of the day. And then I was like, oh, okay. That’s a thought. I can change it. And then I just go to Trader Joe’s and go about my business.

Katrina Ubell:      Right. Your brain is just like, no, but I think this is true. And then you’re like, wait a minute, it is just a thought.

Nicole Myers:      It’s just a thought, right? And we don’t have to live in that phase. And it’s just like so awesome to be able to just recognize that like earlier and earlier and earlier. Again, freedom, so sweet.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. So good. Well, as we come to the end of our time together, I mean, I would just love it if you would offer just some final thoughts to somebody who’s kind of maybe had a similar experience or maybe has lost a lot of weight similarly to how you did and knows that maybe they have some more work to do, but is kind of like avoiding it. What would you say to them?

Nicole Myers:      I would say really that actioning from love and not fear thing is really powerful. And so just really being open to coming at yourself from a loving place, a compassionate place, no matter where you are on your journey, and seeing where there’s fear there and how you’ve been just recognizing that. If I’ve been moving from a place of fear versus a place of love and just knowing…

Katrina Ubell:      It is possible to do it from love.

Nicole Myers:      It is so possible to do it from love. And I know like in my journey, early on and losing the weight and all that stuff, I was doing it out of so much fear and hatred and talk to myself. But when I came at myself from a much loving place, it just all started to open up. And the solutions came and a way to figure things out came. They just came. Yeah. Just starting to approach yourself with more compassion and see ways to action from love versus fear and show up for yourself.

Katrina Ubell:      You are worth it, right? I think sometimes we’re like, oh, should I do that? It’s like, you’re so worth this investment of time, effort, money, and all of it.

Nicole Myers:      And that patience and that practice and that persistence, like just keep showing up for yourself. If this is what you desire, if this is what you want for your life, if you approach yourself with love, it’s done.

Katrina Ubell:      So worth it, right?

Katrina Ubell:      And it’s worth it.

Nicole Myers:      It’s like you can’t even begin to imagine I think sometimes of how much better it can be because you’re so committed to your limits, the self-created limits.

Katrina Ubell:      Absolutely. I limited myself so much and it was all based off of fear and fear of what other people would think and fear of failure. And again, it’s all those things I work on, especially as I experience new things in my life. But now I just know that like that’s the only limits that I’ve put on myself and my thoughts. And then that’s completely like tangible. That’s optional.

Nicole Myers:      It’s optional. It’s like all made up anyways. So why not make up a version that actually helps you?

Katrina Ubell:      That serves. One of the first things I would say to myself is just like, how is this serving me? Just over and over and over again. And I just realized over and over again how that thinking or my thought process wasn’t serving me. I’m like, oh, that’s why this isn’t really resulting in what I want. And then really opening up to that has completely changed a lot. My thoughts completely can be changed.

And just being like, wow, that’s so awesome. And then to actually see that play out and to play that out has been just super powerful in my life so far. I highly recommend thoughtful downloads every day. I don’t plan on stopping. But December 15th, 2019, was when I started. And I haven’t missed a day since. I think two weeks ago, I didn’t do it for like two hours lag time for when I usually do it and I went nuts, really.

Nicole Myers:      Your brain was like, “Excuse me, we have not had our day to day heightening.”

Katrina Ubell:      Excuse me, what do you think that you are doing today? You think you’re extra special? And so immediately I was like, all right, five minutes, and just like this needs to happen. I’ve done it at night. I’ve done it in the morning. It doesn’t matter. It’s just like getting, it’s getting done. And it’s like completely essential to just how I live and to manage my mind well.

I think you have recommended or you just said it, but like the Deepak Chopra abundance meditation. This is like I’m starting my fifth month, I think. Sorry. Fifth go around. Oh my gosh. That thing is powerful. I think that’s definitely helped me especially during COVID, oh my word, to get in this more abundant space. I’m so glad you had mentioned that. That has been remarkable, especially doing it the amount of time I have. And I’m really just like those becoming my new thoughts has been like incredible to see.

Nicole Myers:      Every time you do another round, it just keeps building and you create a different level of understanding.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. Because I went back definitely when COVID started to that scarcity mindset. Oh my gosh. But back to that scarcity mindset. I got to get all the things. And then yeah, once you mentioned that, it was like right on time, and that has like so much more abundance in my life as well, which has been tremendous on top of all of this work too. Hobbies, like the whole thing is just…

This is showing up for yourself and coming at things from that place of love instead of fear has been powerful. Just be open and curious to that, like what does that look like? Because in the beginning I told you, I think unconditional love, what is that, Katrina? What does that mean for me? Make that clear. Because some days I can completely understand.

And then other days it’s just like I don’t even know what you’re talking about that, the words that are coming out of your mouth. But I still did it for like five minutes yesterday. But then I let some circumstances take over and I thought that was different. And so just be curious and open to what that could actually like look in your life in multiple areas, work, relationships, weight loss, the whole thing if you action from love and not fear. And it doesn’t mean you get it right all the time, but I can recognize it now like, oh, that was completely out of fear.

As I’m dating and stuff, I’m like, oh, that was completely out of fear. But as soon as I like check myself and be like, Nick, like how can we come at this with more love? And I’m like, oh, okay. I know exactly what to do next. And it’s just remarkable how that happens.

Katrina Ubell:      Yeah. Amazing. Well, Nicole, I’m so grateful to you for coming on again and sharing your story, sharing your experience, and that’s going to help so many people. And so I just want to thank you so much for coming.

Nicole Myers:      No, you’re welcome. Thank you.

Katrina Ubell:      Did you know that you can find a lot more help from me on my website? Go to katrinaubellmd.com and click on free resources.


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Showing 4 comments
  • Shannon

    Nicole is such an inspiration! This interview touches on so many key points that I have learned in this program to help me with my weight loss journey. Great interview!

  • Anya R

    Hi Katrina and Nicole! I absolutely LOVED your story and all of the amazing messages in it! I was part of WLDO and Masters Sept 2019 – 2020 and I remember hearing some of your coaching calls and i always loved them. I appreciate your enthusiasm and how you shared your story! Very inspirational ?

  • Anya R

    Hi! One more thing – can you remind me what the Deepak Chopra program you are referencing is? How do we find that? Thank you ?

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