Ep #337: How to Deal With Administration and Stay Sane

[00:00:08] Welcome to the Weight Loss for Busy Physicians podcast. I'm your host, master Certified life and weight loss coach, Katrina Ubell, M.D. This is the podcast where busy doctors like you come to learn how to lose weight for the last time by harnessing the power of your mind. If you're looking to overcome your stress, eating and exhaustion and move into freedom around food, you're in the right place. Well, hello, my friend. Welcome to today's episode. I have been cooking this one up for a while and apparently today is the day. Very excited to talk to you about how to deal with administration and stay sane.

Okay. This is a thing that comes up so much. I actually was thinking in so many years of this podcast, I can't believe that I've never done an episode [00:01:00] on this. But it is high time that we talk about administration. It is something that we coach on in my weight loss for doctors only coaching program all of the time. It comes up again and again and again. And I have some things to offer to you about this. I just want to let you know that if you are deeply embedded in your negative belief system around hospital administrations, then maybe this is not the episode for you. This is an episode for people who are willing to open their minds to considering a different way of approaching this situation in that so many doctors face in a way that actually serves them and makes them feel better and maybe even also get some closer to having the career that they want.

[00:01:47] So I just want to put that out there. If you're going to be super offended, then maybe this isn't the one for you, because I'm going to tell you too, there's going to be a little bit just like a little sprinkling of tough love in here because [00:02:00] I think it's kind of needed. We need somebody, one of us, to get in there and kind of shake people up a little bit. And that's what this episode is going to be. So very excited to offer that to you today. So I have to tell you, I first thought I would title this in Defense of Administration, and that was kind of my working title for a while. And then as I was working out what I wanted to say, I realized that it wasn't even actually that that that's not really an accurate title.

But just so you know, where I'm kind of coming from a little bit. If you're not in a place to hear this, then maybe, you know, hit pause and come back to it another day. Okay. So I have observed a lot of things over the seven years that I've been coaching women physicians. And some of this in terms of administration has been pretty consistent, you know, in terms of what problems exist. And some of it I feel like has gotten a little bit worse [00:03:00] lately, which maybe that's what's bringing me to this point where I'm ready to kind of talk about it.

[00:03:05] But there's a lot of coaching that we do. And what I have the privilege of doing then is observing the way people think about certain things. And I'm not going to tell you how to think today at all. What I'm going to do is I'm going to offer you some outside perspectives. You know, sometimes, like, that's honestly, one of the brilliant things about coaching is you get an outside perspective. Like when you're talking to your friends and your colleagues, you're kind of in an echo chamber and everyone's just telling you exactly either what you want to hear or agreeing with your terrible thoughts or you're agreeing with their terrible thoughts.

And what I mean by terrible thoughts is they make you feel terrible and they don't create any good results. And so sometimes we need to step out of that and have a different perspective. Someone who has a different mindset. Honestly, it's so helpful. So many of our clients love coaching with non-physician coaches within our program because those coaches are not buying the story, you know, which is exactly what we need. We need someone to come in and be [00:04:00] like, Yeah, no, you don't have to think about it this way. And, you know, and offering some solutions and some help.

[00:04:06] So what I want to share with you are kind of a grouping of different categories of issues that I see arise. And these are just kind of like some of the main ones that I've noticed. I'm sure there's other, you know, kind of angles and different specifications and, you know, things that are a little bit different. But these are the main ones. And I also want to point out that I'm mostly speaking here in regards to the US health system. But I do think that what I talk about here is going to be relevant to those who are outside the US as well, because I think there's enough overlap that what we talk about, you're going to be able to apply this to your life as well. But I do just want to speak to that, that this is mostly just talking about the way the system is in the US, for better or for worse.

So here are some main observations. And I'm going to tell you kind [00:05:00] of like how I see this playing out and how I see it hurting doctors. And that is ultimately why I'm even doing this episode, right? Like, if there's something that's going on that is hurting you, I kind of feel like it is my job to point that out, you know? That's what I'm saying. I'm like, this is for people who are open to having that pointed out to them, okay, Because this can be a hot button topic for a lot of people.

[00:05:25] Okay. The first observation. There is a lot. And by a lot, I mean a lot of complaining going on. Okay. And I'm not saying that it maybe isn't warranted. I'm not saying that you should just, like march along and not have an opinion. That's not what I'm saying at all. But the complaining, the the talking to people, talking to your friends, talking to your colleagues constantly, it doesn't matter what administration does. Like a lot of people have set a filter [00:06:00] in their brains, essentially, that constantly looks at any decision that comes down the pipeline.

How am I being screwed? How is this a dumb decision? How is this hurting us? How am I not being adequately represented? You know, like. Like. Like how is this not working out for me? Essentially, like, that's the filter. And then no matter what it is, complaining about it. And I will also say that I think one of the worst places where this is going on is on social media. And I think that what is happening for a lot of people is rather than sitting with something for a minute, maybe processing a little bit, in a lot of cases, social media has become sort of a repository for unprocessed emotion. You know, it's like I had this one experience and before I've even put two brain cells together about it, you know, I'm going right to a place where I can just download it all and unload that.

[00:06:57] And then it riles a lot of other people up, too. [00:07:00] So I just want to say that if you're someone who is spending a lot of time there, you might notice that a lot of this is happening and then it might actually be making you feel worse. So just want to put that out there. I'm not saying you shouldn't do social media. I'm just saying it's just something to be aware of, something to know. So the reason why this is a problem, so you complain, okay, who cares? Why is that a problem? You know, some people are like, I just need to vent. I just need to get it off my chest.

The reason why this is a problem is because it is robbing you of the fulfillment that you deserve to have in your work. Okay. It seems like it is useful. It is scratching an itch, so to speak, in the moment. Right. Like you have some emotions and by complaining about it, it makes you feel a little better in the moment. But just like eating some ice cream right now makes you feel better in the moment, but worse later. It's the same thing here. So you are complaining. You're, you know, people are talking [00:08:00] about stuff you're joining in. It makes you feel better in the moment. And that is why it's easy to get sucked into that.

[00:08:07] But it is robbing you of your fulfillment of your work. Physician burnout is at an all time high. Everybody knows this. But even outside of burnout, physician fulfillment actually feeling like you make a difference in the world, that what you do provides value in the world is being reduced like that is harder for you to access when your brain is just setting out to look at how are things wrong and bad all the time. And when you're not feeling fulfilled at work, when you're not able to see the impact that you're making because your brain is so preoccupied with all the complaining, you will start to wonder why you're doing this and you will start to consider a different career.

I'm just putting that out there because I know so many doctors are like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. I might want to try a different job. I might want to leave medicine altogether. And there's lots of factors that play into [00:09:00] that, of course. But I just want to point this out. If you're like, this is not what I thought it was going to be. Okay. Sure. You know, you had your thoughts of how you thought it was going to be. And then there's the reality. But how much of the reality is being created, essentially your perspective, by the way, that you're interpreting things, the meaning that your brain is assigning to things? And my point with this is there's already the filter that your own brain maybe has where it's kind of picking up on the things that it thinks are wrong.

[00:09:28] But then when you're talking and complaining to other people about it, you're getting all like a lot more evidence, right? Things you hadn't even thought of, things you hadn't even considered. And so it just makes your experience of your work so much worse, which you are entitled to if that is what you want. I'm just saying that there's another way. And if you're feeling this way and you feel stuck, I want to let you know there is a way out of this. That's the first observation. Next observation. There is a lot of villainizing [00:10:00] of administrators, right? Or just even administration in general.

And there are a lot of reasons for this. I'm not over here going like they're perfect. They do everything right. I am not saying that even remotely close to saying that. That's not what I'm saying. But any time that we create a villain in our lives, like, right, there's there's some sort of entity or person or whatever that is a villain. We think about them as a villain. Then by default, no matter what, if there is a villain in our lives, then we become the victim to that villain. And when we are in victim mentality, this is when we start thinking we're being taken advantage of.

[00:10:38] Like we feel completely powerless. So villainizing administration completely disempowers you. It makes you feel worse. It makes you feel powerless, impotent, like unable to do anything to make it better. When that is not the case at all. That's [00:11:00] just not true. But it will feel true because of the way that you're thinking about it. Okay. So villainizing administration just in general. Another thing that I see is basically literal contempt for decision makers in administration, particularly when money is concerned. Like people will say, you know, quite negative things about the, you know, different administrators.

But I feel like I hear it even more so when it's about someone who's relating to the money right there. The beancounter there. The money guy there, whoever they are in terms of, you know, finances. And so often this is a discussion like they're involved in cases of negotiating contracts or, you know, compensation, stuff like that, which is a hot button topic for a lot of people. Totally understand that everybody wants to be compensated at a rate that they feel like is is appropriate. Right. But [00:12:00] when you're feeling contempt for them. You're basically completely creating like a brick wall between you and them. And these are people that you are going to need to work with to get what you want. So thinking in a way that creates contempt for them only hurts you. This is the part where it's like in defense of administration.

[00:12:24] You know, I've heard people say like, well, all they think about is money. And I think to myself, well, good thing somebody is. I mean, that is how a business is run, whether it's for profit, non profit. Right. Like someone has to have that job. If no one's looking at the money, then nobody's going to have a place to work. That's how businesses run. And even if you go and start your own practice, guess what? You're going to have to look at the money or someone else is going to have to and then talk to you about it. And you're going to have to think about the money because that is how organizations stay solvent. [00:13:00]

So having so much contempt for them because what they think about is money. Like that's literally their mandate of their job. That is what they have to do. That's what they've been tasked with. Now, I will state that oftentimes people who really excel in that kind of work, they don't necessarily always have the best people skills or the best communication skills. Right. And, you know, navigating conflict might also not be something that they are especially skilled at. And everybody has their different strengths in this world. Right. And so I just want to put that out there that I can sometimes be more challenging to communicate with people like that because of this, right? Like, if you can find someone who is like, you know, an accountant and also like a total people person and super social, like that's going to be unusual.

[00:13:50] That's not kind of like the typical personality that's going to be drawn to those kinds of roles. And it's not like there's no shade here, it's just how [00:14:00] it kind of is, right? So we just as soon as we have contempt for somebody, it is a slippery slope toward like we're circling. Like it's we're getting sucked into a vortex of pain for ourselves. They are human beings just like us who are trying to do their job to the best of their abilities, just like you are. And what I want to point out here is that as doctors, what we really, really don't like is for people to make assumptions about what our intentions are.

I mean, as a pediatrician, I can tell you people saying things like, well, they're just in the pockets of the vaccine manufacturers. I'm like, really? I mean, it's like so laughable. Like, well, somehow I missed that memo because I'm not getting any kickbacks over here. Like, that's just completely untrue. That's not at all what's going on. But people will make those accusations and it makes it really hard. To communicate with them, to connect with them, [00:15:00] to collaborate with them. We don't like it when people make assumptions about what our intentions are and what we're trying to do. Yet we're doing the exact same thing with these administrators, assuming that they have these terrible intentions, that they're bad people in some cases.

[00:15:16] And listen, I understand. I see it even in my own community. You know, some of the organizations, right, left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I'm not saying it doesn't have problems. Okay. I'm definitely not saying that. I'm just saying that these are human beings who we can argue are trying to do their job to the best of their ability, just like you are. Okay, As soon as we start dehumanizing them, there's some real issues and we don't like to be dehumanized. And we also know what happens when dehumanization takes place in this world. It's not good. So I will leave that there for you to contemplate.

Okay, Now let's talk about the next observation shaming doctors who take on administrative [00:16:00] roles, saying that they've sold out. Now they're one of them. They're not one of us anymore. You know, I find this so fascinating when this happens. I have clients who do have a partial administrative role, and then they feel completely disconnected from their colleagues. They feel like, you know, in this weird, like limbo in between, and they want to make a difference and they really want to have their voice heard. And then suddenly they're not belonging anymore with their core group of colleagues. What I want to point out here is like, do we want doctors to have a voice or not? One of the big complaints is like, well, the administrators are not even physicians.

[00:16:38] They don't know what they're talking about. Okay, well, so then what happens when we get some physicians in there? Like, shouldn't we be lifting them up and supporting them as our advocates in that environment? How does it make any sense to be tearing them down in that kind of scenario? Make it really, Really? Really. Hurts [00:17:00] everybody like nobody benefits from this kind of situation. And then the final observation is that all of this does is it leads specifically to each individual or to many individuals a decreased ability to negotiate properly or to lead properly.

We do a lot of coaching with clients on them, needing to have an important meeting with administrators and them feeling so nervous and just completely neurologically like activated, like all of the emotions. It's like they're they're so worked up basically that already going into the meeting, they're not really able to think clearly or even able to listen. It's like they're already in a state of fight or flight and our brains do not do a good job of thinking rationally and listening and processing when we're in a state like that. And, you know, the way that state is created is by the way that we're thinking [00:18:00] about that there's nobody coming in with like any weapons. You know, there's not an actual literal threat right there.

[00:18:06] It's an emotional threat or a theoretical threat. Right? Like they might say this. They might say that. And I understand this because, man, I'm someone too, who can really have a hard time with some of those difficult conversations. But when we're thinking about administrators in a certain way and adopting the thoughts and beliefs of our colleagues that aren't maybe supportive, it would make sense then that we'd feel like a wreck going into some of these meetings. And when we're feeling like that, like you said, we're less able to actually negotiate properly.

We're less able to actually help them to see why them giving us what we're asking for is the best thing for everybody, that everybody wins. I've done a lot of coaching with clients on helping them to figure out like, what is the positioning of my ask? Like, how do I sell them on the thing that I want to do? This [00:19:00] is a skill that a lot of people have not learned, but I mean, that's just how negotiations work, right? Like we have to learn how to do that. We have to help them to see how it benefits them to give us what we want. We're going to have a lot harder time doing that when we're not able to be actually like grounded in our bodies with a calm and reassured nervous system, right? Like not feeling like we're safe. And so much of that lack of safety comes from the way that we've been thinking.

[00:19:33] So I have one more thing I want to share, and then I'm going to offer you some ways for you to take your power back when it comes to this. You can get out of that victim mentality. Okay? And here's what I want to offer. I want to offer that, you know, for seven years now, I've been running a company and I've been the leader of that company. And there are a lot of things that I have learned, and I just want to point them out to you just so that you're aware. Because you know what? When I was in practice, I didn't recognize this. I had a totally different perspective. [00:20:00] I was a big complainer, too.

Trust me, this way of thinking doesn't come naturally. What I'm offering to you like it is something that I have to work at. And I want to offer to you that it's worth it to do that work. So what I want to say is that when you are a leader, when you are running a company of any sort, it is not uncommon for decisions to have to be made that are not necessarily popular with the community of employees. Right. Or decisions that employees will just never understand. And part of being a leader is being willing to take that heat, that blowback and still standing by your decision, because it is ultimately the best decision and the right decision for the group, for the greater good of the whole.

[00:20:49] And when you are in charge of an organization like that, that is how you have to make decisions. So when we're, you know, our [00:21:00] individual selves off to the side and going like, Yeah, but what about me? What about me? We have to recognize. They're not thinking about each individual person in their specific circumstances because they cannot do that and effectively run a company. It just doesn't work. So I want to offer that if decisions are made by administration that you don't understand. I want to encourage you to ask if you are willing to create relationships with some of the administrators, you might be able to understand more.

You might be able to actually get your questions answered so that it makes some more sense to you. And if that's not available or not something that you want to do, I just want to encourage you to recognize that there are very likely lots of facts and other issues at play that you are not privy to, information that is inappropriate to share publicly or to the group, or it just doesn't make sense to do that or whatever it is. [00:22:00] There's often things. That you're just not going to understand. Doesn't even mean that you have to like it, or you just sit back and go like, okay, well, they're just running it.

[00:22:10] We'll talk about that in just a minute. But just recognizing there's a lot at play here. What I also find interesting is that there's often the complaint that, you know, if physicians are running this, but then in organizations where physicians are running it, where there are everyone's still complaining, too. So. Right. We often think like, oh, if this scenario or this situation were different, then I wouldn't have to complain. No, because we've got that filter. Going back to what I was talking about in the beginning, right? We're like, No, the solution is, but it's the same thing. You get the same result.

Okay, so let's talk about how to take your power back. So going back to the villain victim dynamic, when someone is a villain, you give them power over you. That's just how it is. That's how it works. And that doesn't feel good [00:23:00] because then you feel powerless and you feel stuck and you feel like you can't feel better unless the villain changes. And oftentimes, particularly in larger health systems like, I mean, we're going to be waiting for a while. Unlikely for that to be changing anytime soon. So how do we approach this? So the first thing you have to understand, particularly when you're in a villain and victim mentality kind of dynamic, is that when you stop thinking about the villain as a villain, the whole dynamic melts away. Okay, so what I mean by that is when you stop giving them all your power, when you stop believing that they hold the keys to your fulfillment, your satisfaction, your happiness, and you realize that you do, like they all melts away.

[00:23:49] They make decisions, they do things. You get to decide what you think about it and what that means to you, and then you can move forward. So one of the best ways to drop that victim mentality [00:24:00] is to recognize that you have choices. When we think we're stuck, when we think we have no choice. Then it's a lot easier to stay in that villain victim mentality like dynamic. Okay. And what I mean by this is really, really, really challenging yourself. Trust me, I totally had my own issues with this. And in hindsight, I realized I'm like, Oh wow, look how I thought about that and how stuck that made me.

So what I'm talking about is telling yourself that you have to stay where you are. And here are just some examples of reasons that I hear you need to stay because you've worked for the other organizations in town and you don't like them any better. This is like the least of the evils, you know, this is the best of bad choices. That's one reason people stay. Another reason people stay is because maybe their spouse's career, however their spouse's work plays in. Like for me, my husband was already a partner in his practice, so I told myself, Well, [00:25:00] I have to stay here because he's a partner in his practice.

[00:25:02] Well, no, he could have sold out and we could have gone somewhere else. Like that would have been an option. But I just told myself, no, it's not possible. Other choices that you have, I mean, just remembering like you can actually start your own practice. A lot of people I find when they're like, you know, they just feel like or, you know, kind of have a lot of thinking about like, well, if I were running this or if I were doing it or if they asked me, right? So then, great, you can start your own practice and then people will be like, Oh, no, you don't understand. In my specialty, you can't really do that. No, I guarantee you there are ways to make it work, right?

You have choices if that's really what you want. If you really want to have full control and say, then maybe that is a good option. What I will tell you is that some things will be better and some things will be worse. You'll start to recognize, Oh wow, the hospital system actually took care of a lot of things that I didn't even have to think about. So that [00:26:00] was part of the trade off, right? Like, such as? Like marketing. Like, depending on your situation, you might be like, Yeah, I just have patients who show up like my panel is always full.

[00:26:10] Well, how does that happen? If you're on your own, you need to do some marketing, you need to get people in. You got to develop this reputation and and find a referral funnel, you know, or do ads or do whatever you need to do. But when you're in a larger system, they take care of that for you. How interested are you in marketing yourself? Maybe you're very interested and then maybe something like that would be a great opportunity for you and it's a great transition and maybe you'd rather die. Okay, so then maybe being part of a hospital system isn't so bad after all. Like, maybe that's really an option.

What I've also heard is like, but my kids are settled. Like we're not going to leave this community and like, that is fine too. But I want you to know that it's still a choice that you're making. You have the opportunity to leave and you're choosing not to leave. So if you're choosing to stay, then wouldn't [00:27:00] it make sense to also offer to yourself some options or opportunities to be able to enjoy that experience? There are lots and lots of choices. I told myself that I knew all the possibilities for a general pediatrician in my area. I was super wrong, totally wrong about that, because I just thought I knew and didn't ask, didn't communicate, didn't really brainstorm, didn't really figure out like, but what would be the ideal for me and how can I make that be a reality? How can I create that or make that exist in this world for myself? Didn't think about it that way at all.

[00:27:36] I was like, Well, guess I'm out of luck. No other options would not suggest thinking about the way I did. Okay, Another way to take your power back is to get involved. If you want to see some change, then get involved. I've had clients tell me I want to get involved, but then I hear how they talk about the other doctors who take on these admin roles and I don't want them to talk about me like that. Back to what I was saying before. [00:28:00] We have to stop with this with shaming doctors who are taking on these roles. I mean, it's just no, it's kind of unconscionable in my opinion, that has to stop and be willing. Right.

It's like if you really have a problem with it, then let's do something about it. Sitting around and complaining with everybody having a bad attitude is not going to change anything. So take your power back, get involved, communicate, develop your leadership skills, develop your negotiating skills, think critically. Find out what the actual real problems are of the organization, and start thinking critically about how to help solve them. Start adding value so that things can get better. All right.

[00:28:44] Number three, please don't participate in the toxic complaining and vilifying culture, right? People start gossiping. People start talking about that stuff. People start making comments. Just abstain from that. It's hard because like I told you, it scratches [00:29:00] an itch in the moment. It does make you feel a little better in the moment, but it's making you feel worse in the long run. It's making everybody feel worse in the long run. So just don't participate in that. Change the subject. Talk about something else that's also a skill to develop. Everyone's complaining about this, that and the other thing and just change that subject right onto something else. Talk about something different.

The more we talk about, the more our brains will perceive all of this as a terrible threat that we need to get away from. And then we're like, I have to leave medicine. I can't do this. And number four. How to take your power back. Recognize that you are on the same side with administration. You both want the same things, right? When you have this adversarial attitude or perspective on them, us against them. It's not going to turn out well. For you, right? When you think about it more in a collaborative way, if I can figure out what [00:30:00] they want and I know what I want and figure out what overlaps, maybe we can both get some things that we want. Let's figure this out. How can I collaborate with them to make this better? So they're achieving the results? You know, the whatever their goals are that they want.

[00:30:18] And I am too. And my colleagues are too. Or maybe it's for you individually. Or maybe it's for a larger group. When you think of them as being humans just like you who are trying to do what they're supposed to do in their job. Like what? Literally, their job description is, what their mandate is to do, as are you. Then we have some things in common. Probably way more things in common than than we have opposed. And we can start actually seeing some solutions and start trying to move forward. Toward those. If we're waiting around for this culture of medicine or just the way administration is set up, and particularly in [00:31:00] the US, the way our whole medical system is set up.

Like if we're just sitting around waiting for that to get better. Nothing's going to change. Right. We have to be willing to stick our necks out and go and talk to them. But coming from a place of true care and concern and collaboration, and I'll be honest with you, I think this is an area where women really can excel. It's actually talking to my husband about this a little bit. And he was saying that a lot of the male conversation is like, well, if they just asked me to do it, I would go in there and like with like a lot of bravado.

[00:31:39] And what women tend to do much more of is to go in with humility, to ask questions, to understand right from the get go that they don't know everything, gather the information that they need. Women can be more thoughtful, can really instead of, you know, bull in a China shop going through and tearing everything up can take some time. Be very [00:32:00] thoughtful about things. Doesn't mean that it's necessarily better received, but it's like, you know, grease in the wheels. It can make things run a little bit more smoothly. And when things run a little more smoothly, they can go faster.

So I just want to encourage you to consider that this way of thinking about administration is not serving anybody. It's not serving patients. It's not serving the doctors. It's not serving the staff who are hearing about it and also taking part in complaining it's not creating more efficient doctors like don't think the health care systems are benefiting. Nobody's winning here. And when that's the case, then it's very easy to feel stuck. But it's not like nobody can win. It's possible to win. We just have to change the way that we think.

And that's exactly what coaching can be so helpful for. So if you're able to take everything I've talked about today and apply this to your life and make some major changes, I think that's amazing. But [00:33:00] I do just want to point out that you might be like, Well, that opened my mind, but I need some help because this is so automatic.

[00:33:05] And I honest to goodness, I'd love to think differently about administration, but I can't like, I don't know how like it's not possible for me right now. That is where coaching can be so beneficial. So we have our September cohort of weight loss for doctors only opening up very soon. We're taking deposits for it now and this is something that we work on all the time. You would think like, how does this apply to weight and food? It has everything to do with weight and food.

When you're so frustrated and complaining, guess what? Those stale donuts, they look a lot more enticing when you're holding it together all day and you're just bursting because you're so frustrated with everything when you get home. Yeah. That third glass of wine sounds like a really good idea. Like all of that emotional eating and drinking that we do. So much of it can be tied back to this type of stuff. But we have to recognize that, you know, there's more to this than who's [00:34:00] right and who's wrong, who's good and who's bad. There's more to it than that. Right. Very few things in life are so all or nothing. Like there's very much a gray zone in in between there. And that's where I would encourage you to go and live and start understanding different perspectives.

[00:34:20] All right. That was it. That's what I have to tell you about dealing with administration and staying sane. You're not always going to like what they do. This does not mean that you agree with them, that you condone their decisions. It doesn't mean that at all. But regardless if that's where you work, those are people in position of power. Wouldn't it make sense to figure out how to work with them to the best of your abilities?
The only alternative is that you suffer, that it's worse for you. And so that's why I think it's worth having this conversation.

I mean, it's 100% to help you. I have no stake in administration [00:35:00] administrators being treated better or being given the benefit of the doubt or anything like that. But I do have a stake in your well-being, and this is robbing you of your well-being. So let's together work on this by first starting on ourselves individually, then not engaging when other people are doing it, and maybe even being an example to others of a way that you actually can coexist within this atmosphere and not have it, you know, completely harden your heart.

All right, my friend, With that, I will say goodbye. I wish you a wonderful, wonderful rest of your week and I will talk to you next time. Take care. Bye bye. Ready to start making progress on your weight loss goals. For lots of free help, go to katrinaubellmd.com and click on Free Resources.