Ep #391: Weight Loss Success Story – Lindsey C. Thomas, MD

Well, hello there, my friend. Welcome to today's episode. I'm really glad to have you here with me today. Today is another great, great episode and another really fun weight loss success story. 

 

So today I brought on Lindsey Thomas, who is really, I mean, an incredible, incredible doctor. She has really, really accomplished in her career. We didn't even touch on that that much in this episode because we were kind of talking about other things. It was probably outside the scope of what we talked about. But she's really incredible, really accomplished, and has mentored so many people and is just, you know, a joy and just someone who we've had in the program for a little while now and she's just so lovely. 

 

One thing that I just have appreciated so much from her is that even though she's more on the tail end of her career, she has really just come in and been so open to all the things that we do in weight loss for doctors only, and she's just gone in head first and applied everything and has the results to show for it, which is so, so cool.

 

Another thing that's so great about Lindsey is she is somebody who maybe didn't really lose a ton of weight, but that's because she really didn't actually need to. We'll talk more about that in the episode. You're going to hear more about that. But really, it's interesting to think about the idea that, you know, we constantly think we need to be losing more weight or, you know, we could be a little bit thinner. And that day never comes where we feel like we are, you know, thin enough and can maintain it. And it feels peaceful and easy. It just can be this treadmill to nowhere trying to continue to lose weight. 

 

And so that was something that Lindsey had experienced. And so through coaching, she was able to really kind of rightsize what her focus is. I get to a place where she's focusing on the things she wants to focus on creating the experience of her life within her body that she wants to have and doesn't need to focus so much anymore on, you know, the weight and trying to lose and doing all sorts of maybe less supportive things, as she had done over the years and as so many of us have also done over the years.

 

So Lindsey is a really, really inspiring person. I just love coaching her and love talking with her because she's just yeah, just, you know, kind of like hashtag goals. She's just a really great person to have in our program. And you know, we have so many other women who are so similar to her in the sense that they're at the maybe more of the tail end of their careers or even possibly retired and still have so much to contribute, are able to give mentorship to some of our program members who are more mid-career or earlier in their careers. 

 

It really just creates a rich environment. I think so many of us know a lot of people who are about the same age as us, and I think it's so, so beneficial for us to get to know people who are in all different stages of life, and there's so much that we can all learn from each other and contribute to each other. It's just incredible. Anyway, I'm going to stop gushing about Lindsey, but I could keep going so great. I know you're going to really enjoy this episode, so please enjoy my conversation with Lindsey Thomas. 

 

Katrain: Lindsey, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so glad to have you here. Well thank you.

 

Lindsey: This is fun.

 

Katrina: I want to start off with just asking you if you could just introduce yourself a little bit, maybe just tell us a little bit about yourself, whatever you feel comfortable sharing. So I'm.

 

Lindsey: Lindsey Thomas. My career was and still is to some extent as a forensic pathologist, which if anyone listening is the least bit interested, it's the best job in the world. Go for it. It's the best kind of doctor. I fell into it by accident, but it turned out I have loved it and continue to love it. I am married to my high school sweetheart. We're going on 45 years this year and we have three children, all of whom are married. Our two daughters have our grandsons, and our son and his wife are expecting our first granddaughter this summer. 

 

So we will have four grandchildren. And I spend a lot of my time taking care of myself. Now I'm in this marvelous phase of life. I'll be 70 this summer. It's kind of magic. I listen to people who are in the thick of child rearing and full time careers, and I look at my oldest daughter, especially, who has two children, and I'm so empathetic because I remember those years of just, okay, we have the track meet in Elk Rapids, and then we have the choir concert at the high school, and then we have. So we're going to grab a meal somewhere and just trying to fit it all. And so, ah, I'm at this wonderful place. So that's me. Yeah.

 

Katrina: This is so great. And I am very excited to talk to you, because I think that people in your demographic in your age group are often not heard from, you know, particularly women and a lot of women in particular when it comes to, you know, wellness goals, weight, eating, things like that, start thinking like, what's the point? Why even work on this anymore? You know, it just like I've, you know, I've been struggling for so long or, you know, just lots of real kind of, you know, not super helpful thoughts. So I'm just very excited to have this conversation and, and discuss things further. So could we go back to whenever in your life you first identified that you had an issue with food or weight? Whether you know now you think you did, it might be debatable, but when did that first become an issue for you?

 

Lindsey: Honestly, Katrina, I don't remember a time in my life when I didn't think I had an issue with my weight. I remember in elementary school thinking I was fat for sure by middle school, and by then I had started sort of playing around with dieting, and I remember wearing a really tight belt under my dress so that I wouldn't be hungry, just the kind of crazy stuff that people do when they don't have any information about what else to do. But I would say my whole life I felt like I was overweight.

 

Katrina: Was that coming from like your actual family unit? Was it the outside? You know, just society already was shifting in that direction. Where is that coming from?

 

Lindsey: Well, certainly I saw my mother struggle with her weight. My grandmothers were both a little on the heavy side, but in retrospect they were really probably very healthy people. It's just now thinking about it. At the time I thought, oh, they're kind of fat. And my mom for sure was always worried about gaining weight. And she was pregnant, oh, I don't know, 6 or 7 times in a ten year period. And so certainly had gained weight. But again, in retrospect, she wasn't overweight until much later in life. And even then she wasn't that overweight. But I think that was very much the message. And then, of course, as I became a teenager, it was the era of Twiggy, all that external messaging about you have to be willow thin, and I have size 11ft. I'm never going to be willow thin.

 

Katrina: Well, you know, what I was thinking about was just the different generations and the messaging. And, you know, it's been a long time, even before you were a young girl that, you know, there was messaging around body size and all of that. That's that's been going on a long time. But I'm like, in Gen X, I'm a young Gen Xer. I just I'm like at the tail end of Gen X. And a lot of the Gen Xers talk about how it's like, you know, we really got the brunt of the low fat, you know, dieting stuff and everything. And I think for sure that is a huge part of it. But I was thinking, though, that like the generation before us, like we were kids when we were going through all of that, or like seeing our parents and our mothers and, you know, the women in our lives struggling through that. But your generation was actually living the whole thing, like you were there for the whole shebang, basically.

 

Lindsey: You know, that's so interesting about the low fat. When we moved out of our house in Minneapolis, I went through all of my kids stuff and I found some nutrition booklets that they had worked on at school. And the pyramid of here are fats at the top. You don't want any of those. Fats are bad here. The bottom grain cereal, bread, pasta I mean just it's like, could we please flip that or.

 

Katrina: Just have a little more balance all around? Yeah, there's a place for all of it. And I could just.

 

Lindsey: See it was kind of new at that time, as you say. And oh, this is really going to make the difference. Yeah, it sure made the difference.

 

Katrina: It definitely made a difference. That's for sure. That's for sure. That's for sure. Let's just go over all of those I mean you know, so you said right. You're 69 now about to be 70. That's like a lot of decades of dealing with all this stuff. Can you give a little bit of a, you know, overview on different things that you try different things that you did?

 

Lindsey: Sure. The first really serious effort was when I was in med school. And my I think it was my second year of med school, I joined Weight Watchers and lost. I mean, I it's so ironic now because I went in at a perfectly fine weight. I had just stayed at that weight my entire life. I would have been fine. It's maybe 10 pounds more than I would like to be. 15 maybe, but if I'd stayed there, I would have been fine. So again, in retrospect, it was a horrible thing I did. 

 

So I joined Weight Watchers and I lost 20 pounds and got really thin. But of course it was totally non-sustainable. I mean, Weight Watchers back in those days it was pre points. You got two servings of carbs a day, you got zero fat. Basically you got two pieces of fruit, three servings of I mean it was really not sustainable, very restrictive. So that really started me on the whole kind of on off good bad binge fast, that whole kind of cycle that for the next, oh, 30 years, I sort of went up and down and up and down. And I joined Weight Watchers multiple times, and I think I did Jenny Craig once.

 

Lindsey: And so I had all the things and kept over time as I was working full time, raising kids did not have a lot of time to care for myself. My weight kept creeping up and up and up and the year that I was going to turn 60. So exactly ten years ago, I just thought, okay, I do not want to keep gaining 5 pounds a year for the rest of my life. And our oldest daughter asked if I wanted to go on a canoe trip with her for my birthday, and I thought, I don't want to sort of waddle into that canoe, I just, I need to do something. 

 

So at that point, I joined Jenny Craig and it was very successful in terms of weight loss, and I did that for a number of years. But again, at that time you got your packaged food. So it was great. My husband would make his dinner, I would make my dinner. At some point I realized, okay, this isn't sustainable. I'm not going to spend the rest of my life carrying around these little packages. And and again, there was sort of the free food and that you can go.

 

Katrina: Overeat when you want to emotionally eat.

 

Lindsey: Exactly. And none of those programs ever deal with why or any of the underlying stuff. Then from there, a friend told me about ketogenic way of eating, and ketogenic girl was the person I followed, and I had great success with that. And actually I've eaten low carb now for almost seven years, I think. And one of the criticisms, of course, of keto is, well, it's not. People can't stay on it. They miss the real food too much. And I kind of feel like I'm so lucky to be at this stage when the food industry is starting to catch up, because there are so many great substitutes. Riced cauliflower. I mean, I think I've read that no vegetables had the glow up that cauliflower has had.

 

Katrina: You know what's funny about cauliflower? Is. I don't even like cauliflower. I really I mean, it's just really not my thing. Like too many years of growing up, being forced to eat it, I just don't really care for it. Can I make myself eat it? Yes, but I just don't care for it that much. But in rice format, you cannot taste it like it doesn't taste like cauliflower. It's amazing. I just had it the other day and I don't eat it really at home too much. But I've had it out and it's great. Yeah.

 

Lindsey: It's my go to. I mean, even my husband, who does not like cauliflower particularly, is perfectly happy with that.

 

Katrina: So the low carb has felt good for you because it's not like for me, low carb is not the right thing for me, but it is the right thing for you. Which is so good to figure out. It is.

 

Lindsey: And I don't do it 100%. I'm not, you know, perfect. But I've really come over time to realize I can have exception eats once in a while, and that's certainly something I'm continuing to work on in this program with you, because as we've talked, international travel is kind of my downfall. But anyway, after starting ketogenic, then I found another coaching group, online coaching. And that's where I was first introduced to the idea of coaching. But then a friend of mine, a forensic pathologist, said, I'm doing Katrina Ubell and it's coaching just for doctors. 

 

And honestly, that was such a little light bulb click of. First of all, I love how science based it is, which makes sense that it appeals to doctors because it's science based. The second thing that's been so great is as a doctor, I think I felt so much guilt about being overweight. Like, I'm smart. Look at all these things I was able to do. I got into college, I got into med school, I got into residency, I finished all that. Why can't I get a handle on and learning from you that actually, we were trained during college, during med school, during residency, during our jobs, honestly, to ignore our bodies.

 

Lindsey: And it doesn't matter if you're tired, you keep going. It doesn't matter if you're hungry. You just keep going. And then when you do have a chance to eat, you better eat all you can because you don't know when you'll eat again. And I don't care if you're full. Keep going because it may have to last. You and I sort of joke with myself that I have a separate bladder that I use during autopsies, because. Your auxiliary bladder. My auxiliary bladder. 

 

When I'm doing autopsies, I'll go in the room and get all gowned up. Well, I don't want to have to un, you know, clean to. So I'll just go and go and go. And then the instant I'm done, I leave. I'm taking everything off and running, running to the bathroom. And my profession is much more flexible than surgeons or I mean, if you're in a labor and delivery, you don't have the option of saying, oh, just say I'm a little peckish, I need something to eat. So it made so much sense and really helped take away the guilt and shame about why am I this way, why can't I? I feel like that's something that's been really, really valuable.

 

Katrina: And so one thing that we've talked about is that idea of it kind of never being good enough with your body, you know, like where there's always another 5 or 10 pounds that you feel like you could lose. And it's like, yeah, you probably could if you wanted to become like, emaciated and then progressively more emaciated, you know, but how that is driven from that old programing, this idea like that, our, you know, us against our bodies, our bodies not being good enough. Like going way back to comparing yourself to Twiggy even. Right. Like, are you twiggy thin? If not, then like, you know it's not right. And how that has been a lot of the work that we've done together in our program is kind of just getting to peace with what you have, and then what you kind of have realized is like, you don't really need to lose weight after all these years.

 

Lindsey: I know it. So I I've gotten to this ridiculously low weight probably three times in the last maybe five years or something, and I stayed there for about a day until I eat anything else. And then I go back up and I felt like I was constantly struggling still, and I thought, okay, this isn't peace and freedom. Yeah, I'm at this great weight, so-called. But it's just it's not sustainable. So then and this is what I'm still really working on, is okay if I eat the. Where I want to eat, which is low carb, which is really paying attention to the hunger scale, which is I still plan every meal at least a day, and sometimes for the whole week. 

 

I am very conscientious about not eating bread, and when I say if I eat the way I want to eat, it's not, oh, I eat all the things I ever crave. It's like I eat what I consider to be a healthy way of eating. It turns out that my body prefers to be about 12 pounds more than what in my head I think the skinny me should weigh, but even when I got to that low weight, I still was feeling like, you know, three more pounds would really do it. And at some point with, you know, coaching with your group, I realized, you know what? It's not really the number. It's really how I feel about my body. So that's what I'm really working on now is stop obsessing about how I look and really focus on can I do the things I want to do? Can I lift my grandson and stand up? Can I chase after them and play Big Bad Wolf and have I? Can I jog as far as I want to go? And yes, is the answer to all of that, right.

 

Katrina: So it's like kind of recognizing there's actually not a problem here. Like the only problem is the one that I create in my thinking about it.

 

Lindsey: The first time I coach said, what if there's nothing wrong with you? And I just felt like saying, okay, well, clearly you don't understand this ongoing thought of what if there's nothing wrong? I can wake up in the morning and honestly, truly, 100% believe, yeah, my body is fine the way it is. And if at some point I decide something else, I can do something else. But really, my work right now is accepting where I am.

 

Katrina: Which way do you think about it? When you have so much practice rejecting your body right and thinking it needs to be different, like it would make sense that it might take some diligence to to shift that, you know, to have the this new way become the normal. Like the way that you approach your body and yourself.

 

Lindsey: I mean, for how many years? The first thing I've done when I've woken up in the morning is pat my belly and say, ooh. And for the last couple of weeks, I've really made an effort of I get up, I don't touch my belly, my belly is fine. Whatever my belly is doing is fine.

 

Katrina: What I am hearing and what I just, you know, think is really great is like, well, one of the things that I love about our program is that it's not like everybody's eating low carb or everybody's eating more carbs, or everybody's eating paleo or whatever it is, you know, like like that, you know, your body feels great on that. And so you make that work, you know, and that's a priority for you. And then like the way that you plan your food is amazing. And other people are like, I can actually achieve the results I want and I don't have to plan so much. Amazing.

You know, like like we get to just do what works for us as individuals instead of it just being this, like, you know, predetermined plan that everybody needs to follow no matter what. Like that's how we get ourselves in trouble, like that's Jenny Craig or, you know, any of those other things like, this is just the way you have to do it. And instead it's going like, no, how can I work with myself and my life doing the things that actually help me as an individual and then do those in a way that works like, right, like some people eat low carb and they feel terrible. I try to be for zero energy. I feel horrible. So it's like, that doesn't work for my body. Isn't it so great that there are different options for different people? And then you get to find like the things that taste great to you, so it works out for you.

 

And then and then what I love is then you go international traveling, because that's the stage of life you're in where you're doing more of that. And then, you know, I know you're still working on it, but finding that balance where it's like, yeah, you get to have, you know, whatever you want. However you figure out you want to do that. And then when you get back home again, you're not like, oh my gosh, I need to go on a diet. You know, like all the drama, it's like, just go back to doing what you know, works that you like and it sorts itself out. 

 

You're back to where you want to be and that that's normal. I think, you know, can you go on vacation and not gain weight? Absolutely. Can you go on vacation and lose weight? Absolutely. But also at a certain point, particularly when you're maintaining, you know, you're maybe not so focused on that. So you gain two, 3 pounds. Okay. So what. Because, you know, as soon as you get home, like you said, within a week or two it's off again because you know how to work with yourself. And you know, what are the. Actual things that really move the needle for you as an individual, which then frees you up to think about other things you're not so focused on, on, you know, the weight and all that.

 

Katrina: I think, honestly, I think it's always a great time to really focus on how we feel. I think we often like what I'm realizing in my late 40s now is how all of a sudden it feels like very much about health. You know, like I had to get a cardiac scan and I was like, wait, what? Before it was all about about, like, being thin, you know what I mean? Like being a good weight. Like, that's what it felt like, at least for me, in my own mind and my experience. And now all of a sudden, it's like health related stuff, like we can, you know, incorporate all this. We don't have to get to a certain age to start doing anything. We can start being satisfied with where we are right now or, you know, like going, hey, what are the things I want to do? How do I want to feel to your point and work on creating all of that and see where our bodies kind of rest at instead of being so focused on the number, you know, and it's like a good day or a bad day based on where I stand compared to that number or things like that.

 

Lindsey: Totally. And also within the last ten years, what I've really focused on is exercise. And I started jogging ten years ago because our daughters said, mom, let's run a marathon. I was like, uh, none of us run. They're like, yeah, but we could do it. So this was Christmas one year, so the three of us went out and we jogged for about a minute. Then we walked for about five minutes, and then we jogged for about a minute. And we're like, okay, well, that's a start. Well, six months later I ran a marathon.

 

Katrina: Incredible.

 

Lindsey: My t shirt said, my daughter's talked me into this. On the back. It said, where are they now? They all their lives interfered, but oh, they.

 

Katrina: Didn't even end up running it.

 

Lindsey: No they didn't. Our oldest ran the last four miles with me, which was really nice. Yeah. If you ever do a marathon, the last four miles are.

 

Katrina: Having someone run you in is really nice.

 

Lindsey: So I started with jogging. But then the older I get, the more I realize it's about upper body. Because especially as women, I thought, I don't want to be one of those people that gets on an airplane and then looks around for some man to put my case up. Now. True, lots of times people look at me and say, here, honey, let me help you. But you know, I could do it.

 

Katrina: You want to be capable.

 

Lindsey: I want to be capable. I want to be able to lift my own things. Right. So that's what I've really been focusing on. And then a few years ago, I came to your in person in Milwaukee. And one of the things you had us write about was, what's something you would like to add or do? And I put yoga and then, well, what's holding you back all the time? I don't want to have to go anywhere. I don't want to. It was still during Covid, blah, blah. And then the next question was, okay, why is that BS or something? Why is that excuse really not? And I thought, okay, that's the lamest excuse. First of all, there's YouTube. There's so much yoga. 

 

Second of all, I can find ten minutes a day. Yeah. Just that's so for the last, however many years ago that was three years. I've done ten minutes of yoga every single day. And it's like my balance is better, my flexibility is better. And so then I've now within the last oh, 4 or 5 months, I decided, okay, I can add ten minutes of, you know, this other thing. And a few years ago I decided, okay, I can add 20 to 25 minutes of this high interval intensity or high intensity interval training thing. So now I do all those things and it's just I have the time because initially when I started jogging it was for weight loss.

 

Katrina: Right. And that's what I was going to say. It's like people think if I could just be a marathon runner, then I wouldn't struggle with my weight. There are tons of people who are very physically active, marathon runners and otherwise, who very much struggle with overeating and body issues and all kinds of stuff. Totally.

 

Lindsey: I don't think I lost a pound training for a marathon, and now that isn't even like a factor. In fact, one of the apps that I do is all about weight loss, and I just sort of filter that out because that's not why I'm doing this. I'm doing this for lower and upper body strength.

 

Katrina: And I think that when we can shift away from that weight loss mindset, or at least having it be like the primary thing, it just opens up this whole other world of other accomplishments and ways to enjoy just being in the world and and what our bodies can do. And it's just brings more positivity to us and arguably more health. Right? I mean, we know when people's balance is better and we can prevent falls and all that stuff. It's a great things, you know, to be concentrating on. That's actually I had read an article in. A paper a couple of years ago about balance. And I was like, huh, I don't do anything about that. And I thought, you know what? 

 

When I'm brushing my teeth, I have like the Sonicare toothbrush. So it goes for two minutes. And I thought, you know, what I'll do is, you know, beeps like to have me move around the four quadrants of my mouth. And I'm like, when I brush my teeth, I'm just going to stand on one foot. I don't know how I got this idea, but I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this, you know? And then I realized how much better my balance was on one foot than the other. And like over the course of time, I have like really gotten so much better at that. And then I make it harder on myself and I'll, like, close my eyes a little bit. I'll do all these different things and, and I only do it at night. I don't even do it in the morning when I brush my teeth.

 

Lindsey: Well, that's the thing. And when I feel physically more energetic, then I'm more likely to say, yeah, let's walk instead of drive. Or we just got back from a bike trip, I don't bike, I mean, I can bike, but I didn't even do any bike prep because I knew my cardiovascular is fine, my legs are strong, I'll keep up. And it's just so fun to feel at this age. And I keep trying to think about when my mom, for example, was 70. Did she? I mean, maybe she walked downtown once in a while, which is a quarter mile. But certainly she did not believe in exercise. She thought it was a waste of time. If you want to exercise, you mop the floor. If you want to exercise, you rake the leaves. It's been kind of amazing to get that voice out of my head and replace it with the this is so good for me voice.

 

Katrina: Yeah, exactly. And you get to enjoy the benefits of that. I love that if it's okay, I wanted to just talk a little bit about how you were kind of contemplating whether you wanted to fully retire, like completely stop working because that's, you know, that is a big a big decision maker. You know, I think a lot of people start, you know, really when when's the right time and when should I go. And and as we know, there are a lot of, you know, things to be frustrated about, lots of things to manage your mind around and being a practicing physician these days and, you know, but then there's a lot of great things that can come from it, too. 

 

And, and you had this idea that, like, you should retire. And then we had a nice conversation. No, you actually can live the life you want to live and do the parts of your job that you love and still contribute in the ways that you want to keep your brain active and, you know, just staying an active participant for longer. And also, it would have been fine if you decided you wanted to stop working. But it was it was a big kind of area for you to work through.

 

Lindsey: It has been so interesting because I retired from, uh, my regular practice ten years ago, but I've had this very active consulting practice, and I was doing locums for a while, and that really fell off during Covid. Then I did a little after Covid, but I haven't done any locums for, gosh, almost three years now. Maybe. Uh, but I still have this consulting practice, and I made the mistake of agreeing to work for a couple of entities that were really a pain to work with the military and the federal government, to be exact. The people were great. The processes were ludicrous. Yeah. In terms of trying to get reimbursed for my time and just all the paperwork. And so that's when I was talking with you was when I had recently had a few of those and I was just like, I just want to be done with this. 

 

I don't want to have to deal with. But then I realized, you know, actually, there are some attorneys that I work with that I really like. And I know it won't be a hassle getting paid. Mhm. And it's such interesting work. I mean that's the thing. So what I, the decision I've made now is if it's a new attorney that's asking me, I'll say no. And here are, you know, six people I can refer you to. But if it's someone that I have enjoyed working with in the past and it wasn't a hassle, I've said, well, yeah, let's talk about this. So I have a couple of new cases and mostly I'm cutting back and finishing up cases. But yeah, that was such a helpful conversation to sort of realize, you know, actually there are things I really like.

 

Katrina: Yeah. And you don't have to stop and you certainly don't have to stop because of a certain birth date or milestone birthday or any kind of predetermined, like, who am I to be practicing at XYZ age? Like, what difference does it make? If you like it and it works with your lifestyle well?

 

Lindsey: And what I realized was I was being very influenced by our oldest daughter. We live in Madison where she lives, and we moved here to be closer to her and our grandsons, and she's at the hard, hard place in her life where she's working. Her husband's working, they have a four year old and a one year old. And, you know, somebody's always coming home from daycare with a fever. And then there's I mean, you know, we've all been through that of not what's your day like?

 

Katrina: It wasn't that long ago.

 

Lindsey: What's your day like tomorrow. Can you stay? You know, just all of that. Do we have to go to the E.R. or is it. I mean, her life is so challenging. Yeah. And she looks at me and how much we travel. Yeah, and she just thinks your life looks exhausting me. And so the other day, I was over there and we were gardening, and I said, you know, I know it must look to you like, this is a crazy life that I have because we travel. We got here three four times a year. We travel all over the US. I mean, I love to travel so. And it's why you work, right? So you can do what you love. And I said, but it doesn't feel stressful to me. 

 

I remember when I was at your stage in life, the thought of loading up the kids and going anywhere. It just makes me want to lie down. Yeah, it's not like that. Now I can spend a whole day packing myself and walk back and forth and back and forth in the condo to my bedroom and my closet and, you know, yeah, it's fun. I like thinking about, am I going to need my hot pot on this trip? Silly stuff, you know? And she was like, oh, well, I can see that. So I realized I was being influenced by her kind of criticizing my still working because from her perspective, it felt like I should be relaxing more. Right?

 

Katrina: And I can see that especially when you're so exhausted, it's like, you know, you kind of think like, that's when I'll be able to rest. But, uh, I think, you know, we we even discussed this a little bit is like, you know, the more you can use your brain in a way that you like to like, that is good for you, like, that helps you with your health, with your vitality, with, you know, your, um, you know, ability to stay like an active participant in the world. It's something to really consider. So it's like when you have something that you love to do and you can do it in a way that works for you. Why would we stop doing this? And whenever that time comes, you know, I think it can be helpful to just know that you will know, it will become clear to you. It will become obvious. Now's the time. And so if that's not happening yet, then you don't have to keep thinking. Is it now? Is it now? Is it now?

 

Lindsey: And likewise with travel, a lot of people look at us and say, I can't believe how much you travel. Isn't it exhausting? And what I keep saying is, we won't do this forever, right? We're at this really kind of magic window in our lives when we have the time, the energy, the money, the a freedom, the lack of responsibility. But, you know, if my 95 year old dad got a lot worse, we would maybe need to spend more time with him. Or if something happens to one of the grandkids or the then. So at any point our priorities could shift. Or in ten years we just may feel like, you know what? Doing that overseas flight is just too hard.

 

Katrina: That's what I've decided. I'm like, we need to go to the far places now, and then we'll travel around the country when we're older.

 

Lindsey: Yes, exactly. I know my husband and I were debating between a trip to South Africa and a trip to Germany, uh, for next year, and he was looking at the flight times, and it's like a 16 hour flight to South Africa. Wow. So we were like, okay, we better do that next year. Yeah, right. And then.

 

Katrina: Do that one in.

 

Lindsey: Germany later, because we can always do the eight hours, you know. That's right. Right, right, right.

 

Katrina: So so great. And it's so great to not then be stressed about how much weight am I going to gain on that trip? And then what am I going to do to get it off and all of that. So. Oh, totally. Yeah.

 

Lindsey: And every trip has gotten just a little better. I've learned, okay, this technique didn't work. Okay. That technique didn't work. Okay. It's okay if I eat this, but I still need to be really careful about when I drink. And, you know.

 

Katrina: So just like learning and I mean, that's one of the benefits is you have you get to do a lot of practice with these kinds of things, you know, like for that's why, you know, what our home life is. We practice every day. So then we get better at it a lot faster. But when you're going, you know, farther away and different kinds of foods and all kinds of different, you know, uh, just kind of, you know, tricky things to figure out. You're working it out, which just makes it that much easier. And yeah, I would just argue that, you know, that whatever happens, even if nothing you plan for worked, you'll come home and like, it's not going to be a big deal.

 

Lindsey: I know it. It's miraculous to get on the scale when I get back. And I used to be, whenever someone would say, hey, how was the trip to Paris? I would say that was great. The food was amazing. I gained 10 pounds in a week. It was like that was always part of my summary of the trip was how much weight did I gain in what time frame? And this time, the latest time I came back. How was the trip? It was great. The food was great. Yeah. And I know in my head, yeah, I temporarily gained some weight, but it's that real and I know what to do about it. And it was so fun experiencing everything. Yeah, I love it. By the way, the Greek salads really. I know you said your kids don't like feta or something. They don't.

 

Katrina: Like feta. I want to go to Greece with them, but I want to wait till they like feta cheese because, I mean, come on, both.

 

Lindsey: Lunch and dinner virtually every day. We had the world's best Greek salad. Can't wait.

 

Katrina: Someday I'm going to have that. Maybe I'll have to go without them, but. I don't know. My kids like a lot of things that are very grown up foods that I took me years into adulthood to like. So you never know, they they might turn it around here.

 

Lindsey: Well, and butter and grease might, might do it for them. The octopus was the best I've ever had in my life. Wow. And again, like octopus, huh? It can be good. And not just rubbery.

 

Katrina: Oh, right. Exactly. It's so good. So as we wrap things up, though, I would love for you to just share what your thoughts are for a fellow woman physician who's thinking like, is it worth it to come and do a coaching program? Should I do weight loss for doctors only, like especially for women who are, you know, maybe not in their 30s anymore or not even in their 40s anymore, and starting to think like, is this even worth it? Like, why should I even do this? What are your thoughts?

 

Lindsey: So yes, this is totally worth it. The coaching is what really makes the difference. And the previous program I did had this enormous group coaching, which was interesting. And you, as you've always said, you do learn from listening to other people, but it's so helpful when it's just doctors and when it's a smaller group, because for someone like me, it's really easy in a big group to just think, oh, other people need the coaching more than me. I'm okay and and not raise my hand.

 

Katrina: Other people have real problems.

 

Lindsey: Exactly like my husband isn't cheating on me. My kids aren't doing drugs. You know, whatever the really serious life issues are. Yeah, but in a small group, it's sort of like, okay, Lindsey, what did you bring today? And then obviously I want things to work. And you know, I can always bring something, but it really, really helps to have that focused group with other physicians who really understand in a way that it sounds elitist, but I don't mean it to be elitist. It's just it honestly is true that the training we've had to become who we are is unique. It's really different. And. So I think it really helps to be in that kind of a focus. And as I mentioned earlier, the science that you bring to it, I found those first, like the first six months when you have all those videos and it's like, oh my gosh, this is so interesting. 

And I kind of knew bits and pieces about being fat adapted and, you know, intervals of when you eat and insulin and, but the way you put it all together, I thought I really should listen to that, like every year or so because it's so helpful. And as I mentioned, it just takes away so much of the guilt and shame.

 

Katrina: Yeah, like there's nothing wrong with you. It's like when we just learn how our bodies work and work with it. It's like, do you need to be ashamed about what your CBC showed this morning? Like, no, like, it's like we don't have to. Exactly. And then we can work on our brains and reprograming all of those thoughts that we have. And you know what? We make it all mean and all of that.

 

Lindsey: And one of the things I've loved is moving from white knuckling through, okay, I feel an urge. I just have to to learning other ways of, oh, yeah, last night I really wanted some chocolate after dinner, but I was full. Yeah, there's that urge, huh? Of course, my brain is telling me that our youngest daughter was here with her son visiting recently, and we were talking about sugar addiction because she and I have both really had issues with that. And she said that her pediatrician said, yeah, brains love sugar.

 

Katrina: And they sure do.

 

Lindsey: It's like kids prefer fruit over vegetables. It's plain flour, sugar. And again, I think the more I can. Not make it be that it's I'm doing something wrong and make it more. Yeah. This is just how bodies are. This is how my body is. And I can continue to be mad about it and struggle. And it's so unfair and and I think years thinking, oh, it's so unfair. My husband can do eat whatever, drink whatever, and he doesn't get. But then it's like it's not a matter of fair, unfair. It just is. Yeah.

 

Katrina: And that comparison isn't helpful when we just feel sorry for ourselves and then we don't, you know, like, why are we making ourselves feel worse? And when when we're emotional eaters and we use food to make ourselves feel better, like we're actually making it harder and the urge is stronger by even thinking about it like that.

 

Lindsey: Right. So. And now I just laugh. It's like, yep, some people eat that and don't gain weight, and I do. So there you go. That's how it is.

 

Katrina: Well, Lindsey, thank you so much for sharing. I really, really appreciate you coming and taking the time to share your personal experience. And I think, you know, you're very inspiring to me. And I think a lot of women feel like they are just kind of finding their way, you know, kind of like blindfold, like, you know, just reaching out in the dark, trying to figure it out. And I know that it makes a big difference for women like you and other women that we have who are later in their careers, you know, in our program. It really creates such a rich experience. And I think, you know, everybody is looking for what everybody else is offering, and it just makes for such a great experience. So thanks for trusting me. And thanks for, you know, taking a chance on yourself that you even come into the program. I think it's amazing.

 

Lindsey: Can I just put in one more plug for your program? Of course, one of the things that I've gotten is on your podcasts. I've learned about breathwork, I learned about tapping. I mean, I already was doing meditation, but you've had people on meditation, you have all these people, and now that's incorporated as part of my daily routine. I start every day with breathwork and meditation and tapping. And it's it's like everything helps.

 

Katrina: It all adds up. That's the thing. It's like, I think sometimes we're like, but I then I meditate and I don't know if it made a difference. Well, maybe it's not going to be one thing that changes everything for you, but, you know, several little things, like you said, like little ten minutes of yoga and a little bit of this and a little bit of that makes a difference. It's cumulative, and it ends up creating really the well-being that we've been searching. We thought if we were thin, we would feel that way. And now we realize actually, you know, yeah, it's nice if you can move the way you want to and you feel good in your body and all that, but ultimately you want to feel well, you want to feel like you can participate in your life in the ways that you want to. And those all contribute.

 

Lindsey: Well. Thank you.

 

Katrina: Thanks for coming on today.