I am so excited to have my coaching mentor, Brooke Castillo, with me today! A Master Certified life coach, weight coach, and coach instructor, Brooke not only walked me through my personal weight loss journey, but she also trained me to become a life coach at The Life Coach School. She has completely changed my life, and she joins the show to share the model that turned things around for me and so many others.
We cover both basic and high-level concepts, and Brooke gives us some insight into her own journey, as well as the important shift in perspective that changed everything for her. Listen in as we talk about improving your mindset, combating negativity, and the mentality we all have to achieve before we can lose weight.
Katrina: You are listening to the Weight Loss For Busy Physicians podcast, with Katrina Ubell MD, Episode number 100.
Welcome to Weight Loss For Busy Physicians, the podcast where busy doctors like you, get the practical solutions and support you need to permanently lose the weight, so you can feel better and have the life you want. If you’re looking to overcome your stress eating and exhaustion and move into freedom around food, you’re in the right place.
What’s up my friend? Welcome to the podcast today. I am so excited. This podcast has been such a long time coming. I have such a treat for you today. I have my coach and mentor, Brooke Castillo on the podcast. She and I decide a long time ago, well over a year ago that she would be my guest on the podcast when I reached 100 episodes. It’s kind of a big milestone. 100 weeks of content coming at you, consistently every week.
We’re not quite at two years. That’s coming up in just a couple of weeks, but we thought, okay, we’re gonna do episode 100 and that’s it. What I love about Brooke though is that I had said, “How about we do episode 100?” And she said, “Yeah, okay.” And at that time I didn’t even have 50 episodes, and I said, “Or we could do 50?” And she’s like, “No, no. You said 100 first. We’re doing a hundred.” And at the time, it felt so far away, like it would never come, and I knew thought that I was gonna be so fun to see what a difference there was between myself then, and myself now, both personally and professionally as a coach. And that’s exactly what happened. It was so fun.
So before I get right into the interview for you, I wanted to just remind you about the option of purchasing your spot in my next coaching group, which starts in January, by going to Katrinaubellmd.com/gift. That’s where you can send anybody who’s gonna be buying you a gift, or even go there yourself if you’re the kinda gal who ends up buying her own gifts and then let someone else take the credit, as a lot of us do. I’m raising my hand. You can go there and get yourself all signed up. That way, you can enjoy the holidays, knowing exactly what you’re gonna be doing to permanently lose the weight in 2019 and just be done with it, right? So again, Katrinaubellmd.com/gift. Now this is only for MD or DO women physicians in clinical practice this group, okay? So you have to make sure you are a qualifying person for that group. If you are, I would be more than happy to work with you. I would just love it. It would be so awesome. January has so much momentum behind it, and it’s always such a great, amazing group, so can’t wait for you to join me.
Again, Katrinaubellmd.com/gift. What you’ll be able to do after you sign up is print off a gift certificate that you can give to yourself, have someone else give to you, or they can print it off and give it to you. So totally awesome option for you there.
Okay, so Brook Castillo, I mean how do I even introduce her? She is amazing. She is a master certified life coach and weight coach and a coach instructor. She is the person who trained me how to become a coach at the life coach school, which you can find at thelifecoachschool.com, if you’re interested. She is the person who took tons and tons of different teachings, by lots of different people, such as Eckhart Tolle and Byron Katie, and Wayne Dyer, and all kinds of different people and made it very actionable and useful, by creating what we call The Model. So it’s not that she created The Model. The Model’s always been there, she just organized it in a way that is really useful for us to all use, since what I’ve taught you here, and what I teach in my coaching groups.
She created that, she also took me through my personal weight loss journey and has completely changed my life. I mean, for real her involvement in my life, I mean the before Brooke era, and the after Brooke era are very, very different and I’m so grateful that she has come into my life and has just helped me to just transform my life in all the best possible ways. I can’t wait to talk weight loss with her on this podcast, and you’re gonna find it so interesting and just interesting little … Do you ever wish that you could just be like a fly on the wall with people? I think that’s what it’s gonna feel like, ’cause the way we’re talking it’s just like we’re just chatting like we always normally do. And I think it’s gonna be fun for you to listen in. We talk some more basic concepts, we talk some pretty high level topics and concepts, and I thought it’d be fun for you guys to get a sense of all of the different things that we talk about. So, enjoy this episode, an interview with Brooke Castillo. See you next week.
Brooke Castillo, thank you for coming on the podcast.
Brooke: Yay! I’m so happy to be here, Katrina.
Katrina: I have been looking forward to this for over a year, because you may recall … I don’t think you recall actually, but a long, long, time ago, we agreed that you’d be my one hundredth episode guest.
Brooke: 100! Oh my god, that’s so exciting-
Katrina: It is.
Brooke: That’s almost two years of podcasting.
Katrina: I know. End of January it’ll be two years.
Katrina: That’s a serious accomplishment like showing up every week. You know, ’cause your podcast is like-
Katrina: … you’re approaching 300 I think, right?
Katrina: Amazing. Super good.
Brooke: Congrats on 100. That’s awesome.
Katrina: Thank you very much. All right, so you have said … We’re gonna dig in immediately.
Brooke: Let’s just get going.
Katrina: Let’s just do it.
Brooke: … style. We’re like, “Hi, let’s get to work.”
Katrina: Stop the chit chat. Let’s just talk. Okay so you said that on multiple occasions that you knew that I would be successful as a coach, in weight loss, because not only did I sign up for life coach training with you, but then within about a month, I doubled down my investment and signed up for a very intensive weight loss program with you in a small group setting. So I wanted to know why you thought that, and what you saw in me that made you think that?
Brooke: Well, I think first, it’s so interesting, because I have sold hundreds of things to hundreds of people, but I remember our call. I remember talking to you about it. I remember telling you to double down. I remember all of it.
Katrina: I do too.
Brooke: …as you were just so thoughtful about it, and I think you’re one of those people, and you can always tell. You’re one of those people that if you decide to do something, you do it. I think that was kind of like you wanted to think it through, make sure … I think you went and talked to your husband about it, and I think what you did say to me is, “If I do sign up for this, I’m gonna do it.” And you did. And I think that is really the secret. I think a lot of times, we think we can just sign up for something, like maybe the gym, and somehow the result will be delivered to us. That’s what happens on Amazon. Like you buy something, and then you get it, and I don’t know why that doesn’t… for weight loss.
And so, I knew for sure, because you were very clear, and you always have been. From the minute you signed up for anything you’ve always done everything I’ve asked, and I think that is an underestimated skill. I think that people want to filter programs, based on their own brain, which is always a terrible idea, because the current brain that you have, is what’s giving you the result you want. And so I think you signing up and just being willing, even though we had a few arguments about a few things-
Katrina: It doesn’t mean that I never resisted anything.
Brooke: That’s right, but you were like, “I wanna understand this, but I wanna also do it.” And so doing the food journals, doing everything that you did. I was actually thinking about this today, before we got on to record this. I was thinking, “I wonder if you get the benefit of that with doctors. I wonder if that is a skill that you guys are trained.” You can’t like skip a step. We’re like, “Ah we just won’t sew them up today.” It’s hard to half ass it. Right? Kind of like, you’re used to kind of going through all of those steps and so I just thought it was interesting to think about, oh maybe that is as a student, you’re just … You know doctors are typically really good students, otherwise you don’t become a doctor.
And so I think that’s why I knew you’d be successful, is just you were willing to double down on yourself, which most people don’t believe in themselves enough to do that, and willing to do all of the work that was asked of you, whether it felt amazing or not.
Katrina: Right, and you know what I think is … I couldn’t even have maybe even recognized the value of this at the time. But investing in that coaching of myself, then allowed me to be so much of a better coach as well.
Katrina: I don’t think that I put two and two together at the time, but now I can look back and go, “Yeah, okay. I learned how to become a coach and I was intensively coached.” Doing that work on yourself is really that first step.
Brooke: Of course.
Katrina: You always tell people that, but it’s like it’s almost like a revelation. For real, that is what has been so helpful. So I often-
Brooke: And I think that’s one of the reasons why your business has been so successful. And I think this is true across the board for people. I think when you are a really good student, you attract people like you. And I am a very good student. When I sign up for something, I do all the things. Right?
Brooke: I figure, hey I’m putting money down, I’m putting time down. This person, I’m putting my faith in them. I’m gonna try all the exercises, all the things they’re asking me to do, and so I think that’s why I attracted you, right?
Katrina: Yeah, right.
Brooke: And that’s why you probably attract really good students into your program.
Katrina: Totally, and that’s what I notice with my clients, who get the most amazing results, right? They’re the ones who are showing up. They are doing all of the work, asking questions, just sharing everything they possibly can and immersing themselves in it. And especially for something that’s … I mean for so many of us with weight issues, like decades worth of issues with it, it’s not gonna be this thing that you can do for six months like kind of on the side a little bit, when you feel like it, and expect to have a life transforming experience, right?
Katrina: You have to be willing to put in that time and effort and really commit to it. And I think doctors are so great at being able to do that. I would often think to myself, I’m so dedicated. Before I lost the weight and before I knew the coaching tools, I’m so dedicated to my patients. If I say I’m gonna do something, 100% I’m gonna do it, for sure. It was just putting everybody else in front of myself and then by the time it was something for me, it was like … You know?
Katrina: I still remember you saying … to me it feels like just something that I’ve probably known forever, but no I learned it from you, when you said to me, “No, here’s the deal. You decide what you’re gonna eat, and then you expect to not want to eat it anyway.” And I was like, “Come again? Wait, what did you say?”
Brooke: That makes no sense, yeah.
Katrina: And it’s the same thing with everything, right?
Katrina: Like you’re gonna … Oh just like I didn’t wanna go to work and I went anyway. Oh, okay.
Brooke: But how many of us just wanna stay in bed? Like everybody.
Brooke: …everyday. Just a couple more hours, let’s just stay in bed. I love that conversation between why don’t we just always do what we wanna do? Why don’t we just eat whatever we want all day? Why don’t we just lay in bed and watch Netflix all day? I mean, who needs to take care of the kids or the puppies, or …?
Brooke: And I think it’s a legit question. And I had this moment, really had this moment, with my kids, when they were toddlers. I had my kids 14 months apart, and I tell this story a lot to my students, but your people probably haven’t heard it. I went to the park one day and they were playing, and those kids just exhausted me. I had two boys, they were both in diapers, they were both like hellions, like serious. And they were always fighting with each other. I remember thinking, “I wish I didn’t have to take care of these kids. This is a nightmare.” I think a lot of parents can relate to that, right?
Brooke: With toddlers, where like at some point they will be adults, but it’s not today. And I’m like, “Some day they’re gonna be adults, and I’m not sure I’m gonna like them.
Katrina: Right, exactly.
Brooke: I’ve made a terrible mistake. What’s happening? I remember just having this moment, like, “Oh, I don’t have to take care of them. I can just leave this park right now. I can put them up for adoption.” And I don’t know why, but that was just such a profound experience. I was like, yes, we do the things that we “Don’t wanna do.” Because ultimately, that brings us what we want in our lives. And I think that’s the trick that we have to understand is that, all the things we, “Don’t wanna do.” Get us everything we want.
Katrina: Right. So that kind of ties me into another thing I wanted to talk to you about. I’ve been doing master coach training with you, this year and we’re tying that up, and it’s be very transformative. I was gonna say amazing experience, but it’s also extremely painful, which is exactly how you like it. I know.
Brooke: Brings me so much delight.
Katrina: I don’t want it to sound too attractive really. It’s very hard, but amazing at the same time, but we talked about weight loss and just the idea that it means nothing. Losing the weight means nothing and it means everything. And I wanted you to kind of elaborate on that a little bit more, ’cause I think that is such a great way of thinking about it.
Brooke: Yeah, so it’s interesting. I was just having a conversation. One of the conversations that I often have with students, is the idea of like body image and how much should you weigh, and why even bother losing weight? First, and foremost, loving your body at any size is the number one priority, because if you can’t love your body overweight, you’re certainly not gonna be able to love it thin. People do not believe me, but it’s true, right?
Katrina: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brooke: I get so many people that lose so much weight, and then they have the skin, and then they’re like, “Why am I not 30 years younger. I thought losing weight was gonna make everything better, and I thought I was gonna like myself more.” And of course it does none of that. It just removes fat from your body. And so the question then becomes, “Okay well if I can love my body when I’m overweight, then why does it matter to lose weight?” Right?
Brooke: It presupposes that the only idea, that the only reason you would lose weight is to give yourself permission to love your body, which of course is ridiculous, ’cause you can love your body now. And I think it’s so important to recognize that you can’t hate yourself thin, and then start loving yourself. It just is-
Katrina: That’s what I think most people think. They’re like, “Okay, I’ll just get thin and then I’ll work on my thoughts about myself.”
Brooke: That’s right.
Katrina: And it’s like, it’s so much easier for you if you could just work on your thoughts now, then the weight loss is … fun, and it’s just a delight.
Brooke: Right, and if the reason you love your body is because you’re thin, then you’re always freaking out about gaining the weight back, which of course, inevitably leads to gaining the weight back and hating yourself again. So there comes a point where … There came a point for me, where I just decided, “Listen, I’m gonna love myself no matter what. I love my body now, and I will love my body then.” And that’s kind of an interesting thing. Maybe you could speak to this a little bit. I don’t think when I met you, you had as much body loathing and body shame?
Katrina: No, I never have been someone who had a ton of that. I would call it more like dissatisfaction than loathing or shame. It was never super intense. And I think as I’ve done so much more of this deeper work, especially this last year, figuring out that it wasn’t so much my deeper issues were not so much about like me really hating myself, or anything like that, but just not thinking that I’m good enough. So many of the negative thoughts I had about myself were basically to create evidence for that-
Brooke: … of course.
Katrina: Which was so interesting to figure out, of course, because I was like, if you had asked me, I’d have been like, “What are you talking about, no. I-”
Brooke: I have a very … of course I …My life is great.
Katrina: Right exactly, so it was just really interesting, but yeah that body image thing, I still work on it. I mean, I’m 42-
Brooke: Of course.
Katrina: … I mean I look like a 42 year old. What’s happening? Why doesn’t my body look like the magazines…?
Brooke: I know, exactly, but I think that part of that for me … so when you make peace with your body, of course, then at any weight, then, when you’re thinner, when you lose all the weight, you’re not afraid of gaining back, which of course prevents you from gaining it back, because you love it. And I know that you could put 50 pounds on my body and I’m still gonna love myself. I think that’s the point where it doesn’t matter. If you lose weight or not, it doesn’t matter at all when you love yourself anyway.
And I think so many of our students and clients get on that scale and make that number mean whether they’re gonna love themselves that day. And as soon as it means that, then you’ve completely screwed your chances of being able to do it. And so what I mean by losing weight means nothing, is that. It doesn’t mean anything, and it means everything, because it is ultimately the effect of getting to the place where you love your body, because when you get to the place where you love your body, you no longer want to trash it, you no longer want to overeat. You no longer need to overeat, ’cause you’re willing to experience a discomfort that is the experience of being a human.
Katrina: Meaning, feeling your feelings and not eating.
Brooke: Exactly, yeah, so does everyone need to lose weight? I get a lot of push back on this, like, “Why are you encouraging women to lose weight? And why are you giving them numbers to focus on, and goals to focus on?” And it’s because the process of losing weight is the perfect opportunity to get in touch with your feelings and learn to love yourself, and find all of the belief systems that are holding you back from everything in your life. Then of course, you can apply it to anything else you want.
Katrina: That’s what I always feel like. I feel like once … I can take anything that anybody’s working on, and apply it to how it’s the same thing in weight loss.
Katrina: … right? It’s like once you figure out this meta skill then, you’re gonna be able to take that and apply that to anything. Your parenting, your work relationships, your everything. How you’re showing up in your life. And so I think people sometimes underestimate that. They think, “Okay, I’ll handle the weight thing, and then I’m gonna go do other stuff.” And of course there’s other stuff that you’re gonna do, but it’s not just the weight loss. It’s all of those skills that you learn, that relationship that you build with yourself, that then allows you to go on and kill it in every other area of your life.
Brooke: That’s right. And I do feel like … So I lost all the weight, which of course was the easy part. The tyranny of experiencing myself without extra food was the hard part.
Katrina: Tyranny, that’s a good word for it.
Brooke: Right. Experiencing myself live and in person, without any buffering, and same with the alcohol, getting rid of alcohol in my life. So now I feel like with goals that I set in my life, I’m just like, “Listen, this is so easy, …compared to that.” It’s almost like the first experience of like really getting in touch, what happened to me with the food.
Katrina: Yeah, absolutely. Let’s just talk really briefly, about how you decided to stop drinking, because that’s something that you talk about a lot as well, that I think is just taking the same work and applying a different way. You had lost all the weight, and then was it like 12 years or something later? 10, 12 years, that you stopped drinking?
Brooke: Yeah. Gosh I don’t know. I’ve never counted the years, but you’re probably right, yeah. About 10 to 12-
Katrina: Wow, right.
Brooke: … years. And what’s interesting is when I originally did all my work and lost all of the weight, I wasn’t drinking a lot then, but what I noticed is that, as time went on, I was using alcohol in the same way that I had been using food. It was kind of sneaky, it came on in. And so, it required a whole nother layer of work for me to do, which of course, it was much easier that round to understand what was going on for me and to really understand the drinking. I think that my issue is a lot of people that have a really intense addition to sugar, meaning that’s what they use, wasn’t me. So I was much more into potato chips and french fries, and those kind of foods, and so I think I did … Where most people do that sugar work in the weight loss-
Brooke: … really did that work, I think I did that work with the alcohol.
Katrina: ‘Cause you don’t even like fruit or anything. It’s just like that’s not your thing.
Brooke: Yeah, sweet’s not my stuff. I see people really struggling with that, and that reminds me much more of the experience that I had with alcohol, because I think because of the effect it has on the brain is so much more intense. And for me, you know my father died from alcoholism, and I had always felt like since I had lost the weight like I was so in control of my life, and I was so in control of my emotional life. And I started to feel that slipping a little bit with the alcohol. And even though I never had a problem to the point where someone would be like, “You have an alcohol problem.” For me, it just didn’t feel right.
I went about it very seriously, and I will say I think, between losing all the weight because of the work that I did there and stopping drinking, I feel unstoppable. I feel like, oh my gosh, those are the two hardest things I can imagine doing. I’ve made millions of dollars and I’ve created businesses, and I’ve spoken to thousands of people. Nothing compares to that. So I feel like a lot of times our students are like, “Oh losing weight’s just a little side thing. It’s like a vanity thing.” I think it’s everything. I think, the way we do it right?
Katrina: Right, exactly, ’cause you just completely are changing yourself, from the inside out. Not just physically, but mentally as well. I was never a huge … I know you weren’t even a huge drinker, it’s just like you know one glass of wine. You just didn’t feel good, that kind of thing, but even watching you going through all of that, because that’s when I kind of came into your world was as you were doing-
Katrina: … I just was kind of like, “Yeah, you’re right. I don’t even have that much desire for alcohol either, already. Maybe I’ll just do the work to completely make it go away and …” Yeah, I mean I never think about it really, almost ever anymore. Very, very-
Brooke: A lot of people do the weight loss work and then turn to alcohol. There’s a lot of women, I mean it’s an epidemic of women who get weight loss surgery, but then become alcoholics. And it’s just-
Katrina: And then I find that with physicians to though. I have a lot of clients, who the way they unwind is like that glass of wine with dinner, and then maybe another one while they’re finishing the chores, or maybe like another couple, two, three. And so they’re like, “Yeah, I’m sure I’ll lose five or 10 pounds when I stop drinking.” And they would never identify as an alcoholic,… AA meeting or anything like that. They just want to want it less, and want to figure out how to not use that. And it’s the same work with like not wanting ice cream less, or cookies, or potato chips-
Brooke: Of course.
Katrina: … or all of that stuff. So it all-
Brooke: I do think the interesting thing about the alcohol piece, I think especially for women that are working in high stress environments, is that … I mean and who isn’t?
Katrina: Not just doctors, lots-
Brooke: I even think about like massage therapists, I mean they’re not getting the massage, they’re giving-
Katrina: Right. They’re like working out all day.
Brooke: Exactly. I just think one of the things that … It makes me a little bit nervous about the alcohol issue that we have as women, is that it’s not bad enough problem that we have to solve it. Right? So it’s not like we’re getting DUIs and we’re stumbling around drunk, but it’s a problem that once you solve it, you realize how much of your own experience of being alive has been kind of buffered away. And so that’s been huge for me. That’s why I really wanna encourage people to at least try. Like give yourself a year to experience your life without that buffering. It’s like, oh my gosh, all of a sudden it expands. It did for me, it just expanded it so much.
Katrina: Yeah, so amazing. I love that. So another thing that we talked about in master coach training, is kind of like an unconscious or like under the surface type of negativity, thing that we dubbed the hum of negativity. Mean like you don’t know there’s a hum until the hum shuts off. You’re like, “What hum?” You’re like, “No, this is just how it is.” And so we talked a lot about how you know there’s lots of places where that can originate from, but especially in medicine. I think I was telling you, I was like, “You have to understand that I was trained to be able to tell you how anything can kill you. Like the zit on your face, I can tell you how … You know I have to be able to go to that worst case … this negative place, or like worst case scenario place all the time.” Plus when you work in an environment where you see bad things happening, plus the culture of-
Brooke: …and you normalize that.
Katrina: Right. Well, yeah. I mean you try to so that you … Because you don’t wanna feel those extremes of emotions.
Brooke: Of course, yeah.
Katrina: And then the culture of medicine just tends to be very negative. You start off as a third year, on your rotations and your super jazzed and excited. It’s like you’re finally there, you know you get to do that, and then you are working with a team of residents who might be kinda burned out and exhausted, and you hear the way they think and how they’re talking about everybody. And you’re like, “Oh, okay I guess this is how we think and talk about everybody.” And then it just sort of becomes how you think and talk about it, and then you become the residence, and you have med students, and you pass it on down to them, and it just becomes the way that everybody functions.
I know you’ve worked with other physicians, not just me, and I wanted to know just what your thoughts are about that, about like figuring out where that negativity is really negativity. Because my issue was like, well I just think I’m realistic. I think I’m just telling the truth. I’m keeping it real. And you’re like, “Right, you’re negative.” So let’s talk about that, because I know I am not the only one, who struggles with that.
Brooke: Yeah, I mean the thing is, is our brains are pre-programmed from the womb to look for danger, right?
Brooke: To look for things that are wrong already and then you compound that by training to be a physician. The thing that’s always amazing to me, when I work with doctors like you all, I’m like, “Wait a minute, let’s just remember that you are a doctor. It’s just so awesome.” And I feel like this happens so often with all of us, is I remember I used feel this way about thin people. I used to go to lunch with friends that were thin, and I’m like, “Why are we talking about anything other than you being thin. That is the most fascinating thing in the world to me, and I wanna talk about it.” And of course, they’re like not even appreciating that they’re thin. They’re like, “What? That’s boring.” And I feel like it’s the same with doctors. You guys work so hard, and go to school for so long, and your identity is so tied up in it that you forget to stop and just be like, “I’m a bad ass.”-
Katrina: Right, like pat on the back sister. Nice work.
Brooke: To keep remember that. I think that’s what’s so interesting, but I do think … And I actually don’t think it’s just doctors. I think that the way obviously, you’re programmed to think sometimes people are programmed by their parents, if you were raised in a really negative environment with lots of negativity. The thing is, is that you never meet someone that says, “Yeah, I’m really negative.”
Katrina: Right, we all think we’re just truthful and real.
Brooke: I’m just realistic, I just face the facts. You know?
Brooke: But the truth is, reality and facts are neutral and so we can’t claim that reality is negative or that life is negative, unless we’re constantly interpreting everything around us as negative. And so, I think a lot of times, when you’re raised in an environment like that, and you’re surrounded by people like that, you are negative, but that feels like a baseline, it feels like normal. I have another client, very similar to you. She was not a doctor, but she is so negative, but has no awareness of it. So I’ll like point it out to her, and she’ll be like, “What? It’s so fascinating. I didn’t even realize that was a negative thing.” She goes, “I just don’t like the way she handled that.” It seems like a positive thing to say, “I don’t like the way she handled that.” But that upon the next, upon everything that comes out is, “I don’t like it. I don’t like it. I don’t like it.” Even if it’s a justified dislike.
Katrina: Right, no but they have a really good reason for not liking it.
Brooke: Right, they’re a total jerk. Of course I’m not gonna like them. And obviously most people will never get to the point where they’re analyzing themselves at that level to uncover something like that, because it feels like just part of your DNA. It feels like part of your personality, but of course, in master coach training, we dig it all up.
Katrina: Yes we do. It’s like, there’s gotta be something else there. Let’s find it-
Brooke: Find it, right? And so I think that when there’s that underlying negativity, that means in terms of your thought processes, your programing, that’s just the hum underneath everything else, is it also will create an underlying negative, unnecessary, negative emotion. Now, you know that I always teach we’re gonna, of course have negative emotion. That’s part of the deal, but it’s not necessary for us to have the constant hum of negativity.
Brooke: But that’s-
Katrina: But I think what it is, is like even consciously, probably consciously you’re gonna have 50% positive, 50% negative, but then you’re actually … If you then also have this underlying unconscious, subconscious negativity, you’re actually pushing it more like 60/40 or 70/30 negative.
Brooke: Yes. And you think that’s just neutral. You think it’s just normal. And that’s kind of like, I don’t know, I feel like I meet people that haven’t been exposed to coaching and they think their life is great. And I’m like, “Listen, your life is great and it could be so much better.” It’s like on the level. And I feel like that’s not gonna be for everyone, but I feel like if you can uncover negativity that you have … And some people … The people that are listening maybe like, “Oh I don’t have that.” Okay, so here’s a quiz. What do y’all think about the world right now? What kind of state is the world in? What kind of state is America in? What kind of state is the government in? What kind of state is … Name anything, family life. If your brain automatically goes to, “There’s something wrong with the world that needs to be fixed.” You are one of those people.
Katrina: Yeah, I know.
Brooke: In the big scope of things, do you see the world as going to hell in hand basket, or do you see it as the most amazing thing to be able to experience. And it seems so logical to think that everything’s pretty bad, right?
Katrina: It’s because so many people agree too, so it’s like, “No I’m not the only one. Everyone I know thinks that way.”
Brooke: Yes. I was just listening to Dan Sullivan talk about this. It was really fascinating, he was talking about technology, and how often, when you hear people talking about technology, they’re typically talking about the problems that it’s causing, right?
Katrina: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brooke: And how overwhelming and challenging it is, and how it’s bringing up all these issues and whatever, and when you step back, and you look at the magnificence of technology and how amazing it is, it’s just as true. So you were saying earlier, “Is the truth negative?” No. The truth is just whatever you believe. And if you believe that the world’s bad, you’re gonna focus on that, and that’s what you will look for. That’ll be your underlying identity of what you look for. And look at your parents. If you were to ask them, “What do you think about the world?” What would your parents say? ‘Cause that’s probably a good indicator of how you were programmed.
Katrina: Yeah, how you were raised, yeah. Well, as you were talking about technology, there’s just the perfect segue for electronic medical records, which so many physicians just love to hate. It’s like the villain of the last 10 years, with almost every practice being forced to use it. Like how I even say that, “Forced.” Right, like they have choices … get it done, but they decided to do it, and it’s created so much negative emotion. There’s been such a rise in burnout amongst physicians. Electronic medical records is a big reason. That’s what people cite as one of their top reasons for feeling burned out, and it’s just because of their thinking about it. That’s what I try to help them to understand. It’s like, “What if you looked at it like a game that you were just gonna have play for you? What if it could make your life so much better? You don’t have any idea if it could, because you’re so blocked off, and thinking that it’s bad and slows you down and it’s horrible. Who would you be if you didn’t have to chart for two or three hours every night. You could be a-
Brooke: Or what if?-
Katrina: … pretty happy doctor.”
Brooke: … all of that was just a magnificent part of being a doctor? It’s kinda like what we said earlier. It’s like, “I planned on eating kale and now it’s time to eat kale and I don’t wanna eat kale. I don’t wanna have to do …” What is it they don’t like to do? Like, put the information into the-
Katrina: Yeah, back when it was like paper charts, it was very quick. Some check boxes and you were done with that chart, onto the next person. Now, you have to type a bunch of stuff and there’s all kinds of … It just takes longer to go through it all.
Brooke: Yeah, so what if you just saw that as like, “Oh no, there was never gonna be a chance where we would just write this on a piece of paper. Of course we have to put this in a computer. This is part of what being a doctor is about.” And you could see it as kind of … It’s like everything that I do in my business. There’s so many things that I would, “Rather not do.” But as soon as we see, oh this is done. Then we see all the ways that it’s done, and…
Katrina: Right, I love that. Okay, final thing I wanna talk to you about. You’ve told me so many times, you’re like, “Doctors are so stupid.” And you say that in a very loving way.
Katrina: You mean that in the most respectful, loving-
Brooke: I love the doctors. I don’t say they’re stupid-
Brooke: … you know what I say, is they know nothing about weight loss.
Katrina: Well, yes, exactly.
Brooke: Which you interpret as they’re stupid.
Katrina: But so, definitely you have some thoughts about what the medical community gets wrong about weight loss, and I know so many of my listeners, especially the ones that don’t have a weight issue themselves, they take care of a lot of patients who have weight issues. And I think they would love to know what you think the medical community gets wrong about weight loss.
Brooke: Totally. Yes. First of all, I love doctors. I think doctors are bad asses and they should all just tell everyone they’re doctors. You should just wear scrubs all the time.
Katrina: She tells me that I should be just be like, “Hi, I’m Doctor Katrina.” All the time.
Brooke: Of course.
Katrina: I’m like, “I’m never doing that.”
Brooke: You could just introduce yourself. “What’s your name?” “I’m a doctor.” That’s all you-
Katrina: You may call me Doctor Katrina.
Brooke: Just call me doctor. Here’s my I’d tick issue with this, because the whole time I was trying to lose weight, and I would go to the doctor, there was just never, ever any good solution for the medical community. Part of the reason why many doctors have told me that is, is ’cause you’re not trained in weight loss. You get very little training in nutrition and the training that they do offer you on nutrition is completely bogus training, which is very frustrating.
Katrina: Not true, right.
Brooke: In terms of weight loss.
Katrina: That don’t work, right.
Brooke: Obviously there’s nutrition in terms of health that I think is probably pretty useful.
Katrina: They teach us about these super, super rare vitamin deficiencies, that no one will ever see, but then there’s like hundreds of thousands of overweight people.
Brooke: Who are suffering from obesity, right?
Brooke: So I just actually went to the hospital to see my sister-in-law, who has just had to have back surgery. She’s suffering from obesity and they have her on a low fat diet, and it’s just killing me. It’s killing me what they’re serving her. They’re bringing her in white bread sandwiches. I wanted to scream. I’m like, “I’m screaming. Scream on the inside.”
Katrina: Right, scream on the inside, yeah.
Brooke: And I think because I’ve been at this so long, you know decades of helping … Or a decade, I should say of helping people lose weight and having them go to their doctors, after they’ve lost 50, 60, 70 pounds, and having their doctor say, “Stop what you’re doing immediately, because your cholesterol’s changed, or I don’t like the way that you’re eating.” Makes no sense to me. It’s like this ingrained thinking of this is how it should be, and the fact that we’ve lost weight doing it a different way doesn’t make any sense. Even, I had another doctor who lost 100 pounds with me, and even other doctors were just thinking that she had gone and gotten the surgery. They didn’t believe her. It’s such a narrow vision of there’s only one way to lose weight.
And here’s what’s crazy about that. There’s only one way to lose weight, and it doesn’t work.
Katrina: Right, well that’s what I was just gonna say-
Brooke: … to it.
Katrina: … it’s like let’s just keep trying to do the same thing that we have all this evidence it doesn’t work-
Brooke: It’s not working friend!
Katrina: … doing it over and over again, over and over again. And anything else is like very, very scary.
Katrina: One thing that I’ve kind of prided myself on, when I was in practice as a physician was being open to doing things that were maybe not like your typical, or less than your ordinary. Like if a patient came to me with something that was different, I tried to be open minded about it. I wanted to learn about it and just have some idea of … Just like maybe this is amazing. I have no idea. I’m willing to think about it, learn about it. And I feel like a lot of physicians, with weight loss are not willing to do that.
Brooke: It’s fascinating, right? And when I have clients go in there that have lost this weight, I feel like maybe ask them how they did it in a way that you can help them verify was effective, instead of telling them that they need to go on another low fat diet, which clearly is not working. And the whole cholesterol conversation, it gets me a little jumpy with people, because I feel like … You know, our cholesterol goes up when we lose a lot of weight, especially when we lose it quickly. And so I don’t blame doctors, I feel like in a lot of ways, they haven’t gotten the training that they need, and they don’t understand it, but I also tell my students just to make sure they do their own research and get second opinions and try and figure that out.
So I’m hoping you’re gonna change that, Katrina.
Katrina: Well, I mean what I love is working with physicians only, I love being able to have that conversation, and be like, “Look, I don’t need to send you to your doctor to interpret the research. You can go do your own research and …yourself.”
Brooke: You’re awesome, … right?
Katrina: That I love, I love so much. It’s just so great.
Brooke: And that was so powerful like in our group, just having you and having another doctor in there when people got those cholesterol, when they got that stuff back, and they were like freaking out. I’m like, “Check with the local doctor in our group here. Don’t just listen …”
Katrina: And except for the fact that I’m always just like, “Yeah, but don’t forget that I’m a pediatrician so …”
Brooke: And I always say, “Do what your doctor says.”
Katrina: I know and I feel like, well … this is what I think off the record now, actually go see a real doctor …not me.
Brooke: That’s so good. I do feel like it has to change, because we don’t have the cure. We don’t have the solution in the mainstream yet. So …
Katrina: But I know so many people who listen. So many of my clients feel this way and so many people listen, really want … You know they have such a servant’s heart. They want to help, their patients … saying, “What can I do? How can I change things? How can I help?” And they want to be able to help them. They just don’t really know how.
Brooke: And it’s so much more rewarding to have someone come back into your office, after giving them a diagnosis and a prescription, even if it’s just don’t eat sugar and flour and have them come back, and have it work. And this is one thing I wanna say, and I think this is so important for all of doctors to remember. I feel like as a physician, you have a place of authority with your patients, and your patients desperately want answers and to be told what to do and what can work. And so I feel like it’s such a beautiful opportunity to be able to encourage people to be uncomfortable long enough to be able to get the results-
Katrina: … right. What I would love, is to be able to figure out a way that the physicians have enough time to actually, with each patient encounter to be able to actually sit and have this discussion. I think what so many doctors feel pressured with is time. Like, “I have to get … I don’t have time.”
Brooke: The sugar and the flour, the sugar and the flour.
Katrina: Right, that’s it. But I have a couple of clients who have had patients on diabetes medication for years, have just helped them with some ideas, and they’re off their medication. They’ve-
Brooke: Oh my god, I love that.
Katrina: … complete. I mean it’s the best, right?
Brooke: It’s the best-
Katrina: Oh my god.
Brooke: love it so much.
Katrina: It’s so good. All right, so the final thing I just wanted to mention is I have so many doctors, right, wanna be life coaches now. And they always ask me, “Should I go do Burke’s program?” And the answer I always have is yes. Right?
Brooke: Yeah, of course, yes. Always. Everyone should.
Katrina: So if you guys are interested in checking that out, where should they go, the life web school?
Brooke: Let me just say something about that, because I think a lot of what I’ve seen is a lot of doctors, who are currently in practice that are unhappy, and so I would never, ever encourage anyone, who’s currently in practice who’s unhappy to come be a life coach, so they could be happy, of course. Right?
Brooke: I’m always telling everyone, “Find a way to be happy where you are now, and it doesn’t mean you don’t take the training now. Take it now, a lot of physicians do.” And they use all the tools in their current practices. I think it’s easy to get bogged down, like we said, in the negativity of medicine, but before you make that big decision, do all the coaching work to find a way to find happiness, because the truth is, your career doesn’t make you happy.
Katrina: Right, yeah for sure.
Brooke: You know?
Katrina: For sure, and I think a lot of people think like, “Oh, I’ll just leave medicine and become a life coach, and then life is gonna be amazing.” And it will be, when you do all of the thought work that’s required, that you can also do, while you’re still in practice.
Brooke: Well, and how many times have you said to me, “It’s so interesting now, had I had this work when I was still practicing.”
Katrina: Oh yeah. I totally did it all backwards. It’s really fascinating to me, why I didn’t have the … I literally did not have the thought, “Maybe I should find a life coach to hire.” I had a couple of free sessions with a friend, and it was just like that was it. I don’t know why I didn’t think, “Maybe I should do that.” And you know, it all worked out great, and I’m glad that it-
Brooke: Of course, yeah.
Katrina: … worked out the way it did, but yeah, I mean I agree that when people have had the coaching experience and have had some sort of transformational experience for themselves, it’s so much easier than to learn the tools in a different way. Right? ‘Cause knowing them and then knowing how to apply them to yourself, only then helps you to teach them to others, and help them apply them for themselves.
Brooke: Yeah. And leave your job, because you want to, not because you hate it.
Katrina: Right, exactly, or because … You know a lot of what I hear is like, “Well I just want more freedom.” With the idea then that that pre-supposes that there are no jobs in medicine that give you the freedom that you want.
Brooke: Or that a job is what provides you with freedom, which is yeah, start your own business. That’s a great way to get a lot of freedom.
Katrina: Like listen people, it may look easy, we work.
Brooke: You did make it look pretty easy, Katrina.
Katrina: I did make it look pretty easy, but you know I have to say too though, if I had not been in that coaching group with you, in those early, baby stages, getting coached, I just don’t know whether I would’ve even kept with this, because it is so hard in the beginning. And it’s so easy to just let your thinking take over and not evaluate it, and just kind of let it turn into a big nothing. So I’m so grateful to you for that.
Brooke: Of course. And the truth is it’s just easier to eat a cookie than it is not to. And that decision, right there is kinda the catalyst for every decision to come after it. And so being coached, and having a coach to give you perspective on that, I think is the absolute best investment. So I think that before you think about anything else, especially just … There’s a lot of people listening to this podcast, that are like, “Oh yeah, I wouldn’t hire a coach. I like listening to Katrina talk, but I wouldn’t hire a coach.” If that’s you, just really think about why is that, because for me, I would’ve been like, “Oh I can figure this out on my own.” But the truth is, until you get perspective on your own brain, you’ll be like blown away by …
Katrina: Yeah. You know, just recently I had a gal who posted in my group, who said, “I really thought I was gonna be able to do this more as a self study, but I’m realizing I actually need some help, so here I am reaching out.” And I was so proud of her, right?
Katrina: Because it’s so easy to go in like, “I’ll just listen to everything. I’ll fill out some work sheets. I’ll change my life. It’ll be great.”
Brooke: Yeah, and like…
Katrina: Doing that. You know, that’s great, but to recognize, wait a minute, I’m not getting out of this what I want. Maybe I really need to focus and do this. I think that’s so great to have that insight, and yeah, I mean I always think I’m like, “No, what you should do is go through my program, change your life, and then become a life coach. That’s what you need to do.”
Brooke: If that’s what you wanna do.
Katrina: If you still wanna do that at the end, ’cause so many of them, then are just like, “I love my job, more than I ever thought I could.” And yeah, they’re right. The solution is not all the doctors leave medicine.
Brooke: Of course not.
Katrina: We can’t have them do that. I’m like, “Who’s gonna take care of me? Come on.”
Brooke: Well, and I like I said, I just think having doctors in positions that really have this knowledge and understand how much the mental affects everything that happens with our health I think is imperative. I think we need life coaches in medicine. I think for sure.
Katrina: Definitely, yeah, so great. All right, Brooke, thank you so much. How fun was this?
Brooke: Oh my gosh.
Katrina: Episode 100 in the books.
Brooke: 100, congrats! Yay!
Katrina: Thanks Brooke.
Brooke: Okay, talk to you later.
Katrina: Did you know that you can find a lot more help from me, on my website? Go to Katrinaubellmd.com, and click on free resources.